{"id":8996,"date":"2020-08-18T17:03:29","date_gmt":"2020-08-18T17:03:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/?p=8996"},"modified":"2022-02-08T20:02:23","modified_gmt":"2022-02-08T20:02:23","slug":"the-politics-of-state-and-local-tax-with-diane-yetter","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/the-politics-of-state-and-local-tax-with-diane-yetter\/","title":{"rendered":"Politics of State and Local Tax with Diane Yetter"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;7px||5px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Header&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; background_enable_image=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;0px||||false|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px||0||false|false&#8221; 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_module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<iframe class=\"lazyload\" title=\"The politics of state and local tax, a discussion with Judy Vorndran and Diane Yetter\" allowtransparency=\"true\" height=\"300\" width=\"100%\" style=\"border: none; min-width: min(100%, 430px);\" scrolling=\"no\" data-name=\"pb-iframe-player\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/player-v2\/?i=vpdw3-e0f933-pb&#038;from=embed&#038;square=1&#038;share=1&#038;download=1&#038;skin=f6f6f6&#038;btn-skin=8bbb4e&#038;size=300\" allowfullscreen=\"\"><\/iframe>[\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;2_5&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;8vw|5%||5%&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;8vw|10%||10%||true&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;&#8221; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; padding_tablet=&#8221;8vw|10%||10%||true&#8221; padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221; padding_phone=&#8221;8vw|10%||10%||true&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;3.27.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;15px&#8221; text_line_height=&#8221;1.4em&#8221; link_font=&#8221;||||on||||&#8221; link_text_color=&#8221;#ffffff&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_4_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_4_text_color=&#8221;#1a1844&#8243; header_4_line_height=&#8221;1.8em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<h4>Hosts &amp; Guests<\/h4>\n<p>Judy Vorndran<\/p>\n<p>Meredith Smith<\/p>\n<p>Diane Yetter, F<span>ounder of Sales Tax Institute<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><\/span><\/p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Episode Details&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#e8e8e8&#8243; background_color_gradient_direction=&#8221;90deg&#8221; 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divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<ul>\n<li><span>Why is Diane good at what she does?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>Why has she decided after 35 years to stay in state and local tax?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>How do you think people come to see the value and the importance of sales tax piece?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>To what do you attribute that continuous ability to serve the community in adding new students?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>Are there any concepts that you see class after class your attendees struggle with?<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_width_px__hover=&#8221;1080px&#8221; 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hover_transition_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<h2><strong>What You Will Discover:<\/strong><\/h2>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<ul>\n<li><span>[1:25] Diane shares her 35-year long career in sales and use tax where she was employed before starting her own consulting practice<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[2:46] How Diane learned to understand the business processes of sales tax<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[7:27] The opportunity that exists in sales tax for young people and the challenges that it possesses<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[11:43] How Diane takes her clients through the process of sales tax in their businesses<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[14:50] Why you\u2019re more likely to be caught with tax offense if you\u2019re a B2B company than a B2C company<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[18:41] Diane explains how they used to catch companies that were evading tax back in the 1980s<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[25:49] The importance of making learning a lifelong process when working in the sales tax field<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span>[28:34] Diane explains the difficulty of nexus, drop shipping, and taxation of digital goods topics with her students<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; 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hover_transition_duration__hover=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<h2><strong>Quotables:<\/strong><\/h2>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<ul>\n<li><strong><em>\u201cIf what you sell is taxable, every mistake, every order that goes out that doesn\u2019t have tax on it correctly, you\u2019ve just lost 9-10% of your gross sales price.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><span> &#8211; Diane Yetter [12:30]<\/span><\/li>\n<li><strong><em>\u201cBusinesses really want to do what\u2019s right but there\u2019s always going to be some bad apples out there that are going to be evaders of tax and do things illegally.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><span> &#8211; Diane Yetter [26:15]<\/span><\/li>\n<li><strong><em>\u201cIf you\u2019re going to work in this field, it is a lifelong learning opportunity.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><span> &#8211; Diane Yetter [28:10]<\/span><\/li>\n<li><strong><em>\u201cSales tax should not control the business but business decisions should take into account all costs associated with that.\u201d<\/em><\/strong><span> &#8211; Diane Yetter [32:58]<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_width_px__hover=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_px__hover_enabled=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover=&#8221;80%&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover_enabled=&#8221;80%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; use_custom_width__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; width_unit__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; gutter_width__hover=&#8221;3&#8243; gutter_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;3&#8243; parallax_1__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; 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header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<h2><strong>Relevant Links:<\/strong><\/h2>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.10.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<ul>\n<li><span>Website: <\/span><span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.salestaxinstitute.com\/faculty\/diane-l-yetter\">https:\/\/www.salestaxinstitute.com\/faculty\/diane-l-yetter<\/a><\/span><\/li>\n<li>LinkedIn: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/dianeyetter\/\">https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/dianeyetter\/<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Comments&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/podcast-01.png&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;3.25&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<h2>Related Episodes<\/h2>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8221;1_2,1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_button button_url=&#8221;https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/saltovation-making-sense-of-state-and-local-tax\/id1517450565&#8243; button_text=&#8221;Subscribe on Apple Podcasts&#8221; button_alignment=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_tablet=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_phone=&#8221;&#8221; button_alignment_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.13.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_button=&#8221;on&#8221; button_text_size=&#8221;14px&#8221; button_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; button_bg_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; button_border_width=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_border_color=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.1)&#8221; button_border_radius=&#8221;0px&#8221; button_letter_spacing=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_font=&#8221;Lato|700||on|||||&#8221; button_icon=&#8221;&#xe09e;||divi||400&#8243; button_on_hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;14px|30px|14px|30px|true|true&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover_enabled=&#8221;on|hover&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|40px|||true|false&#8221;][\/et_pb_button][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.9.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_button button_url=&#8221;https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7M0RZGgWG8A2Vd4okyR2yc?si=umxHEOq4SbCRp4nLy7LBgA&#8221; button_text=&#8221;Subscribe on Apple Podcasts&#8221; button_alignment=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_tablet=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_phone=&#8221;&#8221; button_alignment_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.13.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_button=&#8221;on&#8221; button_text_size=&#8221;14px&#8221; button_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; button_bg_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; button_border_width=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_border_color=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.1)&#8221; button_border_radius=&#8221;0px&#8221; button_letter_spacing=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_font=&#8221;Lato|700||on|||||&#8221; button_icon=&#8221;&#xe0b5;||divi||400&#8243; button_on_hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;14px|30px|14px|30px|true|true&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; 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Why has she decided after 35 years to stay in state and local tax? How do you [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"on","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"2880","spt_transcript":"The Politics of State and Local Tax, a discussion with Judy Vorndran and Diane Yetter\r\n\r\n\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Welcome to SALTovation. The SALTovation show is a podcast series featuring the leading voices in SALT where we talk about the issues and strategies to help you make sense of state and local tax.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the SALTovation Podcast. Today we're going to spend some time talking about, and trying to understand, why state and local tax often gets pushed to the back-burner, and why it's importance is overlooked. If you spent any time in state and local tax, or perhaps you haven't, which might validate this conversation, you may have noticed this as well. We want to explore how this has happened and why managing the politics... not the red and blue politics, but the politics of state and local tax within a business makes a lot of sense.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> So, joining us for this discussion today is Dianne Yetter, founder of the Sales Tax Institute and Yetter Consulting, and SALTovation's very own Judy Vorndran. Welcome to you both.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Thank you.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Thanks. Glad to be here.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Yes, happy to have you. And so, Diane, I don't know... if you just want to give us a little bit of your background, and kind of give us a picture as to why we really want to talk to you, because you're great. But so, tell us in your own words why you are good at what you do.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, thanks for having me. My background, my career has been spent exclusively in the sales and use tax field. So, I've been doing it, scarily, for almost 35 years, and I have spent time kind of in all aspects of sales and use tax. I started my career as an auditor with the State of Kansas, and then I went into industry and spent about a little over a year with the Quaker Oats company. Went from there to Arthur Andersen when the accounting firms in the late '80s were starting to develop state and local tax practices. So, I was the first person hired in the Chicago office of Arthur Andersen with prior sales and use tax experience.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And I spent about seven and a half years with them, and towards the end of my time there, I had gotten involved with doing tax automation, and made a pitch to Andersen to let me lead a tax automation practice, and they didn't think that's where the industry was going, and I did. So, in 1996, I branched out on my own and started my own consulting practice, and have been doing that for almost 24 years.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Why is it that you have decided, after 35 years, to stay in state and local tax?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, I love sales and use tax in particular, which is really what my area of focus is in. I really don't do much in the income tax or property tax, or any of the other types of state and local taxes. But what I find fascinating and exciting and intriguing about working with sales tax is...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> <b>To be successful as a consultant, but more importantly to be successful handling sales tax internally within your own business, you need to know the business. So, unlike income tax, where you're looking at grand totals of things, to be really good at sales tax, you have to understand the minutiae. You have to understand your business operations. So, if you're a manufacturer, going out and actually understanding the manufacturing process:<\/b> how is whatever you make made? What materials go into it? What gets consumed and dissipated? What is scrap? What goes into the customer packaging? How are the different pieces of equipment used? What kind of equipment is used?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> <b>That's on the operations side, or the production side. If you're not in manufacturing, if you are in retail, what are your different sales channels that you sell through? What types of items do you sell? How do you process a sales order? Getting into just the operational of invoicing, you need to understand:<\/b> how do you accept sales orders from customers, what are your sales channels, how do you process credits? Do you do terms? Do you issue invoices with payment terms?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> You need to understand all of those financial operations. You need to understand marketing and communication and all of those other aspects in order to be really good at sales tax, and I love that. I love going out and being in my clients' businesses. When I was at Quaker Oats, it was one of the funnest things I got to do, was I had to go on all these plant tours, and going for Quaker Oats, that's pretty fun when you can go through and eat hot Cap'n Crunch right out off the line.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Right?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> See how puffed rice is made, or... golly, at the time, we owned Ghirardelli Chocolate.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Really?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Yeah.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Oh, my gosh. That's an interesting segue, to own chocolate and oats. Yes, I like it.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, they also had pet food, and those were not so great to go through.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Right? Yeah, we have a Purina rendering plant not too far from our houses, where Judy and I live, and so, when the wind blows just right, you get a nice little smell of what's cooking, and it's not Ghirardelli chocolate or fresh-baked oats.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Yeah. Well, and keep in mind, back in those days... Judy, you probably remember this, what did women wear professionally?\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Suits. Hose. Right.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Pantyhose.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Skirts, pantyhose, high heels.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Yeah, yeah.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> So, going through those plants, there were a couple of spots where they said, \"Uh, I don't think we're going to go in that area.\"\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And I said, \"Why?\"\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And they said, \"Because you have to walk above on a open... metal catwalk, and there's men underneath you.\"\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Yeah.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And I'm like, \"Oh, okay.\"\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Yeah, we're going to pass on that one.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Yeah. So, I got smarter, and I would bring different clothes if I knew I was going on a plant tour, but those are the types of things that I love about sales tax, and I love solving problems.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Right, because you don't really want the sales tax to drive the business process, so you have to really understand how it is so that you can work with the flow as much as possible, but also get people within the company to help you advocate for the proper, right flow of information. So, documentation follows truth, so your tax truth is transparent or not.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> No, I agree. It's funny you say that, Diane, because that's exactly how I feel, and I think we all feel that way as a team, because we get so excited to get to know our businesses and really understand how they do things. And then, we help them advocate on their own behalf on how to manage their expectations, or their governmental obligations.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Well, and Diane, do you find... and Judy, too, do you find that the people who are ultimately making the decisions really know what to do, or why the decision is being made, and do they really understand the nuances that have gone into making that decision, or the process?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, I think one of the challenges in the sales tax field is, it is often a fairly low-level person that has responsibility for it. It could be a clerical person; it could be an entry-level accountant. When I was at Quaker Oats, I was a staff accountant, and I was the only person in the sales tax area. I had an intern that prepared my tax returns, but that was it. I reported to an income tax manager, I reported up through to the tax director, VP of tax, but they had never spent time in the sales tax field.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> So, I was responsible for making decisions that could cost the company millions of dollars if they weren't done correctly, and so, that can be very empowering to a younger person in their career. But it can also be very intimidating, because what if you make the wrong recommendation? What if you do it wrong? And back in those days, there wasn't the types of resources and networking opportunities that there are today? You really felt kind of isolated. And sales tax was always kind of the redheaded stepchild, that... you got promoted out of it, you know?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> When I was with the State of Kansas, at two years, I was being trained to move to income tax, and I started the training, and I really wasn't looking forward to it. And I had done a lot of exciting things in my role as a sales tax auditor, and I really wasn't interested in that. And so, I was actually kind of glad that the opportunity came for me to move to industry.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And same thing. When I got to Quaker, they wanted to train me to do income tax, and get me out of doing sales tax. At Arthur Andersen, they wanted me to learn how to do income tax. So, through my entire career, people kept trying to pull me out of sales tax, and I kept digging my heels in and wanting to stay, and keep doing what I'm doing. And I'm grateful that I did.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Well, and you went against the tide, though, and that's what's very interesting, Diane. Same with me. Because when I started, it was like, \"You could do this, it's very clerical,\" and I thought, \"But I kind of like it, actually.\" I'm the same as you are, really enjoy the sales tax side of things, and I'm fascinated that it's really been something that's been relegated to somebody that doesn't understand the process, and doesn't understand all the issues that go into it; the legal ramifications of a document that they submit to a government, and the monetary issues at a state and local level. The money going out of business that may or may not be correct.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> So, it's interesting that you had that same experience, and that just... it's fascinating, given that sales tax has been around almost 100 years, come 1922. 1922 was when the first sales tax was enacted in West Virginia. We're almost 100 years later, and we're still kind of of this value system of not being as important until Wayfair came around, actually, in my mind.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Well, and it's interesting, too, that... kind of income tax was the promotion, right? Because Judy and I have done a lot of due diligence, and oftentimes, targets are... start-ups, they have a great idea, maybe they were equity-backed, and they now want an out, or they can be integrated into a larger business that makes sense. But their burn is huge, and their expenses are huge, so they're at a loss for federal income tax purposes. They're at a loss for state tax purposes. But almost everything that gets escrowed is sales tax.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> And so, I want to kind of understand why is that? Because that's where the real money is that we see on diligence, and how do you think... I'll put the question out to both Diane and Judy... how do you think people actually come to see the value and the importance of that sales tax piece?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, I think what I've been seeing is... you're exactly right, that the visibility is for income tax, and particularly for start-ups, there is no income tax exposure in the early years. There is no income tax planning for the most part in the early years, and the focus is on sales. It's sell, sell, sell, grow, grow, grow.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And what happens is that the companies don't really focus too much early on on infrastructure, other than to generate sales. And what I say to all of my early-stage companies is, \"Here's the thing that you need to keep in mind. If what you sell is taxable, every mistake, every order that goes out that doesn't have tax on it correctly, you've just lost nine to 10 percent of your gross sales price.\" And I ask them, \"What is your margin? What is your profit on every sale?\" And typically, it is well below nine to 10 percent.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, then I say, \"All right. So, if you want to not lose that, and don't forget that it'll compound, because if the state doesn't find you for a few years, now you're paying interest and penalty on top of that.\" And so, if I can get into those early-stage companies with the explanation of, \"Let's at least take a look at... the things that you sell, are they taxable, generally? And then, let's get a process in place to track where you have an obligation to collect tax. Let's at least deal with your home state where you are...\"\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Certainly, after the Wayfair decision in 2018, we have to think about economic nexus and how fast are you growing, but you also have to think about what channels are you selling in, are you an Amazon FBA seller? There's other things that come into play. And you need to kind of have that discussion early on with these early-stage companies.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> But when you do that, Diane, don't you think that you still get pushed aside? I could tell you, we have many a client that's a start-up, and a year, two years later, we finally start working on remediation. And I am actually involved in a client now that has been in business 37 years and never even did anything in their home state. So, I don't understand that. The state never found them, and nobody ever thought about it, and here we are on an escrow issue, right? They're being purchased, and now we're... So much of that has been pushed aside all these years.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Now, Judy, do you think that's because the CEO, the owner, didn't know any better? Or is he just like, \"Yeah, I know something's out there, but I don't care. Come and find me\"? What do you think is that baseline...\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> There is a little bit of that... yes. I agree. No, I think there is... I feel like there's a little bit of that kind of, \"I'm the entrepreneur, I'm out here to create something, and I don't have that care. Let them catch me,\" is exactly correct. I see that being more the viewpoint in the entrepreneurial community until they get traction.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> But even once there's traction, then it's just sort of overwhelming, honestly, to kind of tackle it. I think that is a problem in and of itself. What do you think, Diane?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Yeah, I think I see a mix. I've worked with a couple of companies pre-launch that, they didn't want... they're more conservative, and I helped one company that was a software business get their contracts correct, get their marketing correct, get their web language correct, get their order process correct in order to minimize tax. And I've got others that have had the, \"I'm going to stick my head in the sand. I'm better than anybody else. I'm not going to get caught.\"\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And what I'm starting to find more recently... so, since the Wayfair decision, is the investor community is now very clearly including sales tax due diligence in their due diligence, and I've been engaged by a couple of different investors, and have been part of their due diligence process, and they have walked away from deals because the company hadn't dealt with sales tax. Or there has been a fairly large either purchase price adjustment, where there's been a delay in the sale because they're requiring the target company to resolve all of these open issues.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Yeah.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> it's been eye-opening to many of those entrepreneurs, and so, I think historically, yes, particular... a company that's been in business for 37 years like the one you mentioned, Judy, they weren't caught in 37 years, they get a bit of a bravado, and they're like, \"I haven't been caught, I'm not going to get caught.\" And I think it also...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> I talk a lot about, with my clients, who are your customers? Are you B-to-B, or are you B-to-C? If you're B-to-C, you're probably less likely to be caught unless you're the type of a product that an auditor happens to buy, because we have to remember that auditors are people, too. As much at times we like to think they aren't, but I know of a number of companies that got caught because the auditor bought something online and didn't get charged tax, and wanted to figure out why.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And that, I think, is going to start happening more as it becomes less relevant to determining where a company needs to collect tax, is to where they're physically located.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Oh, I was going to say, that's a really interesting... I love the, \"How did you get caught?\" stories. Judy and I, we were in... actually, kind of a mini-hearing with a jurisdiction, and it kind of came up, like, \"Well, how did you find us?\" Right? Like, \"You can't Google XYZ and find us, because...\" For whatever reason, they kind of didn't want to come up in a Google search.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> And they're like, \"Well, here's what we do. When we go out to lunch, and you, software company, you like to have your name branded on everything, we look at company schwag when we're in the airport, when we're in line at lunch, when we're walking down the street; we write down all of these companies' names. We have this list, and then we go back to our office, we check a database, and if you're not in there, we look up your address and we send you a notice.\"\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, as an auditor... keeping in mind this was 35 years ago, one of my duties, whenever I went out, because I went all over the state of Kansas... actually, all over northeast Kansas; that was my territory for the most part...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> One of the obligations was every little town you went into, you were supposed to pick up a phone book. Remember those?\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Interesting.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And in the audit room, we had a library of all these little town phone books. And when you had downtime, you would pull out a phone book, and you would start going through the Yellow Pages, and you would look up to see if the companies were registered. Because if they had a Yellow Pages listing in the phone book that had a local phone number, or had a local address, they should have been registered at that point.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, it's very similar. We talk to companies about going to trade shows, and if the trade show you go to is open to the public, auditors get trade show duty. And their duty is to walk up and down the aisles of the trade show and pick up a brochure from every single company that has a booth. And then, they come back and they look to see if they're registered. They have proof that you were in their state.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> There was the truck weigh station duty. You'll go and you'll sit there, and you will look for all the trucks that are coming in, and it may be a contract carrier, it may be a common carrier that just is hauling for a particular client, and they've got logos on the trailer. There are airplane and boat duties. I never got those because, of course, we were in landlocked Kansas, but they go and they look at the wing numbers of the planes, the private planes coming in.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, there's all of those different ways that auditors identified companies historically. Today, it's just a little bit different, you know? It's very easy to just sit down and pick a topic, and Google it, and see the companies that come up.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Well, and it's interesting you say all this, though, in lieu of the fact that... this has been going on for years. There's always been a way for people to figure out who you are from the marketing perspective. Certainly, you want people to know. Why is it, though, that we're still at this point where people are not willfully compliant? There is still this bravado, right?\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> I mean, even you were saying, and I've noticed the same thing. Within the last few years, I've seen the PE firms, the private equity and all sorts, getting more up on these issues. But historically, when I first started 25 years ago for me, it wasn't the case. And so, the escrows didn't really exist until the last few years. It just feels like this evolution of something that's existed. Why are we still here, right?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, I think it's gotten better. I agree. Back in the late '80s, I was dealing with an acquisition when I was with Quaker, and it was... sale tax was typically not an issue that a manufacturing company had to worry about, because our sales were not subject to tax.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> But they were acquiring a company that it was going to be direct sales that they had to worry about. And it was a huge... it was a purchase price adjustment. At 24 years old, I had to go before the Board of Directors of Quaker Oats and explain why we had a seven-figure... actually, eight-figure purchase price adjustment. And that was kind of scary, because they had never had to deal with that before.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> But I think what is happening is, certainly, the focus on entrepreneurship has exploded probably in the last 10 to 20 years even more so, and what has happened... and I would like to think that my business as the Sales Tax Institute, we have really tried hard to be an educational resource, or an information resource, for companies. And I think they are starting to get more visibility. I think the other thing that is happening are... accountants, and bookkeepers particularly, that work with these start-ups and work with these smaller companies are much more likely to bring it up.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> The other thing that I believe is happening is a lot of the start-up incubator types of organizations... here in Chicago, we have an organization called 1871, they are very well aware of the need to get sales tax handled correctly. I actually spoke just this week... last week, to an accelerator group for food products. So, it was a small group of... I think it's eight companies that are in the cohort, called The Good Food Accelerator, that they are start-ups selling different kinds of food products. And they had asked the question about sales tax.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, they brought me in to do a session about sales tax, and I think that's what we're starting to see happen more, is that those types of organizations that are providing advice and counsel and support to start-ups are starting to make them think about it. And it's baby steps, Judy. I agree. I wish it could move quicker, but I think it's better than it was 20 years ago, and I think in five years, it'll be even better than it is today.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Yeah, that's probably very true. I mean, that's sort of a bright side of it. I think, I'm just curious, too; in lieu of that, how do you think the reception is? How did the reception go when you presented that to the Board of Directors at Quaker Oats? Were you met with a bunch of frowns and frustration and anger?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Oh, of course.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Or were they... Okay. Because that's the other challenge, is the physical demonstration of frustration, as if it's your fault. Right? \"Oh, you're the bearer of bad news.\" But, really, you're not the one who created the rules and the laws. The company that you're acquiring was the one that wasn't compliant, right?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Correct.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> And so, it's, \"I'm sorry. I'm just telling you the truth of what that business should have done. It did not do it. So, don't shoot the messenger.\" But I think, I feel there's a little bit of a challenge of being the messenger, and I am assuming, given that you've been doing this so many years and you've been very successful continuing to draw people into your classes, that there's still this desire for knowledge and understanding. To what do you attribute that continuous ability to serve the community, and adding new students, and all that? Because once again, they're becoming the messenger. And teaching them how to be a good messenger, I suppose. But what do you think about that in terms of the fact that you're continuing to fill your classes all these years later?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, I would like to think that part of it is natural curiosity of people, that when they hear about something, that they want to learn, and that they have a genuine desire to do what's right for their business.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Now, it could be that up the chain, senior management may not be as supportive, but I think that deep down, businesses really want to do what's right. There's always going to be some bad apples out there that are going to be the evaders of tax, and really do things illegally. But I think down deep, most businesses... and I think the Sarbanes-Oxley provisions... scarily, what is that, now? Almost 20 years that they've been out there, and the rules with having internal controls in place, and...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Back in the day, when you had a company that actually thought about, \"Oh, I should set up a reserve,\" it was a... throw a dart at a wall to figure out what number to put into that reserve. And it could be your slush fund...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Today you can't do that. ASC 450 says you've got to have it measurable, and it's got to be...\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> [inaudible 00:27:16]\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And fixed and determinable, and so, now you see companies, particularly public companies, really do take this much more seriously. And so, I think that's part of it. Why do people seek out training and particularly seek out our training? I think what we have always focused on in the entire 24 years that we've been doing training is, it's practical knowledge.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> So, we really focus on making sure that people just don't get the technical tax knowledge, but know how to apply that to what they're doing, and I think we've gained a reputation for that. And so, we have people that come back, our advanced workshop; we have people that come every year, and why do they come back every year? Because sales tax laws change. They change every day. And so, you need to stay on top of it. If you're going to work in this field, it is a lifelong learning opportunity. And people that like that, people that really do enjoy learning, I think also gravitate towards this because it does change so frequently.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> Are there any concepts that you see kind of year over year, or class after class, that your attendees really struggle with?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Clearly, nexus, and the changes more recently. But even before the Wayfair decision, what constitutes substantial physical presence? Is one visit into a state sufficient? Well, what is that one visit doing?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, looking at that and trying to understand it. I think nexus will always be a topic that is a challenge. Another one that we have all kinds of questions on are drop shipments. I think I got three drop questions in my email just today, and, \"What do I need to get for my customers? What do I need to give to my suppliers? What is a drop shipment? How do I deal with this? How do I know which states' rules to apply?\" So, that is something that becomes even more prevalent in the e-commerce world, because so many businesses have all of their goods drop-shipped. They're not actually holding the inventory. So, I think those are two of the things that have historically...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And then, the one that is certainly the up-and-coming is the taxation of digital goods, and knowing, what is it that you're selling? And then, more importantly, where do you source it? Which state has the right to tax a SAS service agreement that covers employees in multiple states? Where is it sourced to? Is it where the Bill To address is? Well, unfortunately, that's usually what happens. But where are the users located?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, that is another big issue, and sourcing can be an issue on a lot of different things. If you've got marketing materials, and promotion materials that you're mailing to prospects and customers.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> No, it's interesting, if I get another thing of software-as-a-service, it's a service. You're like, \"Well, your agreement pretty much says it's a license, so let me get this straight.\" Right? So, there's definitely some misapplication or misunderstanding of the laws as it applies to that type of industry, where I have that a lot.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> And you know, it's funny you mention the nexus issue. I remember when I made my first ginormous nexus study, way back when, at Deloitte, and we went through the minimum contacts, right? They have spent a day, two days in a state; was there a de minimis standard? And that has not been well articulated in most states, so it's really something that just hasn't been addressed many, many years ago. And now, we see states like Michigan and California saying one day is enough to create nexus. So, I think that's a real shocker for business, that there isn't really this de minimis, or they'll argue, \"Well, it's a 1099 person. It's not my real salesperson.\" Ah, it doesn't matter, right? So, the agency issues.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> My favorite are, \"Well, but we use a PEO. They're not really my employee.\"\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> It's like, \"Yeah... Yeah, they are. I understand that XYZ Payroll Company is what is on your W2, but where's that money coming from?\" You know? I am an employee of TaxOps. We use a PEO. There is no way that I am not an employee of TaxOps just because my W2 says something else. That's a fight that we see a lot, too.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, and I think part of that is even companies that have purchasing companies, or have central office administration and service center companies, that they've got all of their salespeople in one entity but they're selling for all of the operating entities. And that gets back to what we started the conversation, the discussion, about understanding your business. It's understanding all of these nuances, and even those visits into a state...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Our nexus questionnaire has, I don't know, 100 questions on it because you have to segregate every different type of activity, because a sales solicitation, you might be able to do more, but if you're in the state doing a service, you're doing an installation. You're doing a training. You're doing a repair.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> That is not only creating sales tax nexus, but also income tax nexus. And so, you need to segregate those out, and that's where it really comes down to educating the business about what's relevant. And I completely agree, I think we talked about this earlier, of sales tax shouldn't control the business. It shouldn't, but business decisions should take into account all costs associated with that, and understanding the tax costs, whether that is income tax, withholding taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes all need to be taken into consideration as you think about that.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Even business licenses. I had a client back when I was at Andersen that, they had salespeople that would willy-nilly go into different states to make, no kidding, a hundred-dollar sale. And they were getting caught not just on the sales tax side, but they were getting business licenses, and they were getting franchise taxes, and they were getting... the income tax wasn't really the issue because they were sales solicitations, so that's a protected activity for income tax. It was all these other piddly nuance taxes, nuisance taxes, that were really adding up.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, before a salesperson... they finally put something in place that the salesperson, before they went into a state had to clear with the finance department, who would call us, and we would say, \"Okay, if they go into this state, here's what you're subject to.\" And it was the business licenses that they were getting caught.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Right, because that offsets the cost of the sale. I mean, all your profit is eaten up in that license. I remember at Deloitte, we were trying to figure out if we could build a repository of all those business licenses, because there's so many jurisdictional licenses that people don't... there's no real common list of all that that was available at that time. We were trying to figure out how to do that economically. But not everybody business is subject to the same types of business licenses. So, very interesting a nuance in that area, I agree with you 100%.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Yeah. So, I've been asked, \"Why do you still do sales tax?\" And Meredith, you asked me, what do I specialize in?\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> Well, we've morphed over the years. Early on, my business was tax technology. We were known for implementing tax systems, and we still do that. Not as much as we used to. But we do a lot of planning, we do a lot of nexus studies, we do a lot of voluntary disclosures, audit defense...\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> But really, what has become a much bigger part of our business is our training, and we love talking to new people, we love having the opportunity to meet these students. We celebrate them. Last year, we actually introduced a concept, a brand called The Sales Tax Nerd, and what did that come out of? It came out of us talking to people that are our students, or just people that use our resources, and what we heard from them time and time again is, \"I feel isolated, I feel alone, I feel unappreciated, but I'm really proud of what I do, and I love what I do.\"\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And so, we decided to celebrate all of those people, and so, Sales Tax Nerd is what came out of that. We actually launched an award. So, last year we awarded our first [inaudible 00:36:24] Sales Tax Nerd of the Year. That will become an annual offering, an annual award that we will present. And we're actually going to be launching this summer a Sales Tax Nerd community, which we're very excited about.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> So, it will be an opportunity for all of us sales tax nerds to come together and support each other, and be resources to each other, and help each other succeed in what we have chosen in our career.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Well, and that's how you and I know each other, Diane, because you're in Illinois but you obviously operate nationally, and we collaborate because you've seen things I might not have seen, and vice versa, and we can help one another because you're only as good as the experiences. You can look at every single one of our American laws, and read them, but how they are interpreted can depend on the facts and circumstances of each industry, each client, each legislative body, and each auditor, right?\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> So, those are the things where we rise each other up, I think, and it's been my experience by collaborating with other like-minded people such as yourself, so that we can enhance the client experience and get the best possible answer for them. And I love that. I have my Sales Tax Nerd sticker, and I have it on my laptop, and I was just looking at it and I wanted to bring that up. So, I'm glad you did.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> What I love about this field is... Judy, you and I are competitors. But we're also collaborators, and we're also associates, and you're there on the ground in Colorado, and I love that I can call on you when I'm like, \"Okay, what exactly is this city doing?\"\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> Right.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> \"What [inaudible 00:37:58] the nuances of that?\" And I've got my own crazy... it's only one city, but the City of Chicago that does crazy things out there, and there is more than enough work to go around for all of us. And the more we work together, those of us that are in smaller independent businesses, what we have the opportunity to do with that collaboration is actually provide similar types of expansive resources that a client could go and get from a Big Four, but they actually get the value of working with the top people in the field that are the leaders of their firms, at a price that they can afford, and know that we've got a national... or, I've actually got international partners to help me when I've got issues outside the US.\r\n<p><b>Diane Yetter:<\/b> And it's collaboration. Surely, there's friendly competition. But at the same time, there's more than enough work to go around.\r\n<p><b>Judy Vorndran:<\/b> I agree.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> And I think that's the perfect end to a conversation that I'm sure we could go on for hours, really, and just share stories, and create that partnership.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> But I want to thank you both for joining us today on the SALTovation Podcast. If you want to continue the conversation, you can reach Diane Yetter at salestaxinstitute.com, and Judy Vorndran at saltovation.com. Please join us on our next podcast for a discussion with Bruce Nelson, a 30-year veteran of state and local tax who is now the Editor of the Journal of State Taxation and an instructor for the AICPA.\r\n<p><b>Meredith Smith:<\/b> You can find all our podcasts on saltovation.com, where you can let us know the topics you'd like to hear on future episodes. I'm Meredith Smith. Until next time.","footnotes":""},"categories":[723,229],"tags":[252,789,284,12,126,265,794,790,688,689,792,793,18,19,570,575,775,30,101,80,681,791,168],"class_list":["post-8996","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","category-state-and-local","tag-accountant","tag-apple-podcast","tag-cfo","tag-colorado","tag-cpa","tag-finance-professional","tag-good-podcast","tag-itunes-podcast","tag-podbean","tag-podcast","tag-podcast-love","tag-podcast-show","tag-sales-and-use-tax","tag-sales-tax","tag-sales-tax-automation","tag-saltovation","tag-saltovation-podcast","tag-state-and-local-tax","tag-state-tax","tag-tax-provider","tag-taxation","tag-try-pod","tag-use-tax"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8996","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8996"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8996\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":9925,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8996\/revisions\/9925"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8996"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8996"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8996"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}