{"id":15028,"date":"2025-06-04T00:05:35","date_gmt":"2025-06-04T00:05:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/?p=15028"},"modified":"2025-09-09T16:03:47","modified_gmt":"2025-09-09T16:03:47","slug":"illinois-vs-everyone-digital-goods-legal-fights-and-the-future-of-tax-policy","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/illinois-vs-everyone-digital-goods-legal-fights-and-the-future-of-tax-policy\/","title":{"rendered":"Illinois vs. Everyone: Digital Goods, Legal Fights, and the Future of Tax Policy"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;7px||5px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8221;3_5,2_5&#8243; make_equal=&#8221;on&#8221; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; padding_top_bottom_link_1=&#8221;false&#8221; padding_top_bottom_link_2=&#8221;false&#8221; padding_left_right_link_1=&#8221;true&#8221; padding_left_right_link_2=&#8221;true&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; background_position=&#8221;top_center&#8221; width=&#8221;100%&#8221; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;||&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0|0|0|10%|false|false&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;|0%||0%||true&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;&#8221; animation_style=&#8221;slide&#8221; animation_direction=&#8221;bottom&#8221; animation_intensity_slide=&#8221;1%&#8221; use_custom_width=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit=&#8221;off&#8221; custom_width_percent=&#8221;100%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;3_5&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;8vw||80px|&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;|10%||10%||true&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;&#8221; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; padding_tablet=&#8221;|10%||10%||true&#8221; padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221; padding_phone=&#8221;|10%||10%||true&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<header>\n<div id=\"title\" class=\"style-scope ytd-watch-metadata\">\n<h1 class=\"episode-title\"><a class=\"remove-default-style style-scope ytcp-video-list-cell-video\" href=\"https:\/\/studio.youtube.com\/video\/pTC_wbnvQgA\/edit\" aria-label=\"From Sales to Income Tax States Are Watching #SalesTax #EconomicNexus #SmallBusiness\" target=\"\" aria-describedby=\"goog_1056084888\"><span callout-captioner-role-tour=\"\" callout-click-video-entity=\"\" class=\"style-scope ytcp-video-list-cell-video\"><\/span><\/a><\/h1>\n<h1 class=\"episode-title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/saltovation.captivate.fm\/episode\/yetter-2\">Illinois vs. Everyone: Digital Goods, Legal Fights, and the Future of Tax Policy<\/a><\/h1>\n<\/div>\n<\/header>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_video src=&#8221;https:\/\/youtu.be\/X6fbAw827zk&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_video][et_pb_code _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<div style=\"width: 100%; height: 200px; margin-bottom: 20px; border-radius: 6px; overflow:hidden;\"><iframe class=\"lazyload\" style=\"width: 100%; height: 200px;\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" allow=\"clipboard-write\" seamless data-src=\"https:\/\/player.captivate.fm\/episode\/fb185fec-74a6-4852-baa2-1b965c0436f6\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p>[\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;2_5&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;8vw|5%||5%&#8221; custom_padding_tablet=&#8221;8vw|10%||10%||true&#8221; custom_padding_phone=&#8221;&#8221; custom_padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; padding_tablet=&#8221;8vw|10%||10%||true&#8221; padding_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221; padding_phone=&#8221;8vw|10%||10%||true&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;15px&#8221; text_line_height=&#8221;1.4em&#8221; link_font=&#8221;||||on||||&#8221; link_text_color=&#8221;#ffffff&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_4_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_4_text_color=&#8221;#1a1844&#8243; header_4_line_height=&#8221;1.8em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h4>Hosts &amp; Guests<\/h4>\n<p>Meredith Smith, Partner, State and Local Tax<\/p>\n<p>Stacey Roberts,\u00a0 Partner, State and Local Tax<\/p>\n<p><span>Diane Yetter, President &amp; Founder of Yetter Tax and the Sales Tax Institute<\/span><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Header&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; background_enable_image=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;0px||||false|false&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px||0||false|false&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221;][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Episode Details&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#e8e8e8&#8243; background_color_gradient_direction=&#8221;90deg&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;80px|0px|80px|0px|true|false&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_width_px__hover=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_px__hover_enabled=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover=&#8221;80%&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover_enabled=&#8221;80%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; use_custom_width__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; width_unit__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; gutter_width__hover=&#8221;3&#8243; gutter_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;3&#8243; parallax_1__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover_enabled=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_end__hover=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_end__hover_enabled=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_position__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_direction__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover_enabled=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; parallax__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_repeat__hover=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_blend__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; background_blend__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; border_radii__hover=&#8221;on||||&#8221; border_radii__hover_enabled=&#8221;on||||&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover_enabled=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_saturate__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_saturate__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_invert__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_invert__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_blur__hover=&#8221;0px&#8221; filter_blur__hover_enabled=&#8221;0px&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; animation_repeat__hover=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_duration__hover=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease&#8221; background_color_gradient_stops__hover=&#8221;#2b87da 0%|#29c4a9 100%&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h2><strong>What You Will Discover:<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||0px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p>This week we continue our conversation with Diane Yetter, President and Founder of Yetter Tax and the Sales Tax Institute. We unpack recent changes to Illinois tax law\u2014specifically through the lens of the PetMeds case\u2014and explore the broader impact of South Dakota\u2019s use tax ruling. We also break down what these shifts mean for taxpayers and why it\u2019s more important than ever to stay alert in the ever-changing world of state and local taxation.<\/p>\n<p>From choosing the right software to understanding key decision factors like taxability content, geographic coverage, and platform compatibility, listen for practical insights for businesses navigating this complex space.<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_width_px__hover=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_px__hover_enabled=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover=&#8221;80%&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover_enabled=&#8221;80%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; use_custom_width__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; width_unit__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; gutter_width__hover=&#8221;3&#8243; gutter_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;3&#8243; parallax_1__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover_enabled=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_end__hover=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_end__hover_enabled=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_position__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_direction__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover_enabled=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; parallax__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_repeat__hover=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_blend__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; background_blend__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; border_radii__hover=&#8221;on||||&#8221; border_radii__hover_enabled=&#8221;on||||&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover_enabled=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_saturate__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_saturate__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_invert__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_invert__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_blur__hover=&#8221;0px&#8221; filter_blur__hover_enabled=&#8221;0px&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; animation_repeat__hover=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_duration__hover=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease&#8221; background_color_gradient_stops__hover=&#8221;#2b87da 0%|#29c4a9 100%&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Topics Discussed in this Episode:<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none;\">\n<ul>\n<li style=\"list-style-type: none;\">\n<ul>\n<li>Why understanding nexus thresholds is crucial for compliance\u2014and how sales tax automation can help.<\/li>\n<li>What shifting tax obligations across state lines mean for your business operations.<\/li>\n<li>How the taxation of digital goods and software is evolving\u2014and why it matters now more than ever.<\/li>\n<li>The critical role tax professionals play in helping businesses navigate today\u2019s complex regulatory environment.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; custom_width_px__hover=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_px__hover_enabled=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover=&#8221;80%&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover_enabled=&#8221;80%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; use_custom_width__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; width_unit__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; gutter_width__hover=&#8221;3&#8243; gutter_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;3&#8243; parallax_1__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover_enabled=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_end__hover=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_end__hover_enabled=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_position__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_direction__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover_enabled=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; parallax__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_repeat__hover=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_blend__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; background_blend__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; border_radii__hover=&#8221;on||||&#8221; border_radii__hover_enabled=&#8221;on||||&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover_enabled=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_saturate__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_saturate__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_invert__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_invert__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_blur__hover=&#8221;0px&#8221; filter_blur__hover_enabled=&#8221;0px&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; animation_repeat__hover=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_duration__hover=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease&#8221; background_color_gradient_stops__hover=&#8221;#2b87da 0%|#29c4a9 100%&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Relevant Links:<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; ul_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; ul_font_size=&#8221;16px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||0px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<span style=\"font-size: large;\">Subscribe on your favorite podcast app <a href=\"https:\/\/truthwork.slack.com\/archives\/D03426YPV5Z\/p1689255898860749\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">here<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Follow us on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/201050\/admin\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">LinkedIn<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCMB1ZQNGXM_F777SIEl8Vjw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">YouTube<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/taxops.com\/contact\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Talk to a Tax Advocate Today!<\/a><\/span>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; custom_width_px__hover=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_px__hover_enabled=&#8221;1080px&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover=&#8221;80%&#8221; custom_width_percent__hover_enabled=&#8221;80%&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; use_custom_width__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; width_unit__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; width_unit__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; gutter_width__hover=&#8221;3&#8243; gutter_width__hover_enabled=&#8221;3&#8243; parallax_1__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_1__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_2__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_3__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_4__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_5__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method_6__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_background_color_gradient__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_start__hover_enabled=&#8221;#2b87da&#8221; background_color_gradient_end__hover=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_end__hover_enabled=&#8221;#29c4a9&#8243; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_color_gradient_overlays_image__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_position__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; animation_direction__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_slide__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_type__hover_enabled=&#8221;linear&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction__hover_enabled=&#8221;180deg&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_direction_radial__hover_enabled=&#8221;center&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_start_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; background_color_gradient_end_position__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; parallax__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; parallax_method__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; parallax_method__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_repeat__hover=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;no-repeat&#8221; background_blend__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; background_blend__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; allow_player_pause__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover=&#8221;on&#8221; background_video_pause_outside_viewport__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_fullwidth__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; use_custom_gutter__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover=&#8221;off&#8221; make_equal__hover_enabled=&#8221;off&#8221; border_radii__hover=&#8221;on||||&#8221; border_radii__hover_enabled=&#8221;on||||&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_style__hover_enabled=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; box_shadow_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0.3)&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_hue_rotate__hover_enabled=&#8221;0deg&#8221; filter_saturate__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_saturate__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_brightness__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_contrast__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_invert__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_invert__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_sepia__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;100%&#8221; filter_blur__hover=&#8221;0px&#8221; filter_blur__hover_enabled=&#8221;0px&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover=&#8221;normal&#8221; mix_blend_mode__hover_enabled=&#8221;normal&#8221; animation_repeat__hover=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_repeat__hover_enabled=&#8221;once&#8221; animation_duration__hover=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;1000ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_zoom__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_flip__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_fold__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_intensity_roll__hover_enabled=&#8221;50%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_starting_opacity__hover_enabled=&#8221;0%&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; animation_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease-in-out&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_duration__hover_enabled=&#8221;300ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_delay__hover_enabled=&#8221;0ms&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover=&#8221;ease&#8221; hover_transition_speed_curve__hover_enabled=&#8221;ease&#8221; background_color_gradient_stops__hover=&#8221;#2b87da 0%|#29c4a9 100%&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h2>Transcript<\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.4&#8243; text_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; text_font_size=&#8221;15px&#8221; text_line_height=&#8221;2em&#8221; link_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; link_text_color=&#8221;#fe4943&#8243; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; max_width=&#8221;800px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<div class=\"row mt-lg-5 mb-3 row-eq-height border-bottom no-gutters episode\">\n<div class=\"col-lg-9\">\n<article class=\"pb-4 pl-lg-5\">\n<section>\n<div class=\"episode-transcripts\">\n<p><cite>Intro:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:00:34\">00:00:34<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Welcome to SALTovation.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The SALTovation show is a podcast series featuring the leading voices in SALT where we talk about the issues and strategies to help you make sense of state and local tax.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Intro:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:00:46\">00:00:46<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back for part two of our conversation with Diane Yetter of the Sales Tax Institute. If you missed part one, be sure to go back. We laid the groundwork on nexus thresholds and evolving state guidance.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>In this episode, we shift focus to Illinois&#8217;s controversial tax law changes in the PetMeds case, explore the ripple effects of South Dakota&#8217;s use tax ruling and dive deep into the complex world of sales tax automation.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:01:14\">00:01:14<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So then kind of shifting gears in your issues to watch you put the spotlight on a separate case that pitted South Dakota against Minnesota based Ellingson Drainage around use tax.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>What were the circumstances that led to South Dakota Supreme Court issuing a no review ruling in in that and left the taxpayer on the hook for about 75 grand in use taxes. And what do you think the takeaway is for taxpayers?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:01:48\">00:01:48<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think it&#8217;s an interesting case. So you know, when we think about when does tax apply? And here we&#8217;re talking about the consumer&#8217;s use tax. You know, it&#8217;s based on first use initially.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so when you have first use of something happening in a state, then you owe tax on 100% of that value.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:02:10\">00:02:10<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:02:10\">00:02:10<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And then if you move that to another location and the, the items at issue in this case were heavy construction equipment. And so it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s clearly an asset.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so when you move something from one state to another, the second state, state has the right to tax that, but has to give a credit for any tax that you paid in the first state.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So if you moved something from a taxable Status in State 1, Minnesota in this case to a taxable status in State 2, South Dakota, assuming the Minnesota tax was paid at the initial purchase of the asset, when it comes to South Dakota, South Dakota would have the right to tax it, but would have to give you credit for the Minnesota tax that you paid. In this situation, no Minnesota tax was paid, so there was no offsetting credit.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Now, what didn&#8217;t get argued is usually the states will allow some sort of depreciation allowance. So if the item had been used for some period of time, I didn&#8217;t see any discussion about that in the case.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So it might have been that it was a new piece of equipment and then it got moved over. It was only used in South Dakota for a short period of time.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So the argument that the taxpayer made was it should only be taxed based on the portion of the time that it is actually used in the state. And, you know, we&#8217;ve got a lot of history of use tax not being apportioned.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And you know, one of the arguments that was made, and I actually, you know, Richard Pomp and Jeff Friedman, pro bono, took this case to try to get it to go to the US Supreme Court, even which denied cert. And what they were trying to argue is, yes, sales tax shouldn&#8217;t be apportioned because sales tax is a tax at the time of the transaction.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Use tax is a tax based on use. And so why shouldn&#8217;t use tax qualify for some sort of apportionment?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>If it is something like construction equipment that is, you know, moved across different jurisdictions, you can make the argument with, you know, vehicles with a lot of different sorts of equipment that moves around regularly. And so it&#8217;s an interesting argument and an interesting, you know, concept to kind of think about.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>It goes against everything that we&#8217;ve all learned, right, over all of our years of sales tax, that tax, you know, it&#8217;s, where is it used? Where is that first use? And yes, a credit can apply if tax was paid. And in this case, it was just that there was no tax that was paid.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, by South Dakota winning and then the South Dakota Supreme Court, you know, not opining, and then the U.S. supreme Court denying cert. You know, it basically the court, the case stands as it was decided, which was the South Dakota taxes due.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But I think it&#8217;s an interesting, it&#8217;s an interesting thing to get us thinking about in today&#8217;s world, particularly where we are so mobile, you know, does it make sense? But I also would say let&#8217;s be careful what we wish for.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:39\">00:05:39<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:40\">00:05:40<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>We all travel.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:41\">00:05:41<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:42\">00:05:42<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Can you imagine if we had to apportion a value of our laptops or our cell phones?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Stacey:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:46\">00:05:46<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:47\">00:05:47<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, for every state that we go into.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Stacey:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:49\">00:05:49<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:05:50\">00:05:50<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, we both are in very high rate states, so there would likely be little additional tax due. But it, you know, I think we have to be careful of.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yes, maybe there is a good legal argument that it should be apportioned, but do taxpayers really want to have that administrative burden of trying to figure out that apportionment of things that move? And I don&#8217;t think most taxpayers.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Stacey:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:06:21\">00:06:21<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, I think the administrative burden that exists as it is today is hard for taxpayers with tax just trying to figure out that rate differential, you know, and, and reporting it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:06:32\">00:06:32<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Stacey:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:06:33\">00:06:33<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So I can&#8217;t imagine piling on the apportionment piece to your earlier point, that would just be a nightmare.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:06:40\">00:06:40<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, well then too, if that data already exists, it&#8217;s like, all right, well, here&#8217;s also some like kind of keys to property tax assessments.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:06:50\">00:06:50<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:06:50\">00:06:50<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Are you going to start paying now there&#8217;s property taxes have, you know, de minimis thresholds sometimes. Right. You want to pay a percentage of property tax on your depreciable value of your computer when you go to IPT in June.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:07:02\">00:07:02<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, no, Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:07:05\">00:07:05<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, one thing is always just one thing, but it&#8217;s never just one thing.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:07:09\">00:07:09<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:07:10\">00:07:10<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, even income tax apportionment, I mean, so many states have moved away from having three factors, but you know, it does go to that and you know, just think of not just the use tax administrative burden, but your asset records and trying to keep track of all that. It would just be, I mean, craziness.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So I get the legal concept of let&#8217;s try this, but I think the practicality of it, I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s something people really want to buy into.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:07:44\">00:07:44<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, and then kind of in that vein of burden. Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>We are, you know, sales tax professionals and we are often advising our clients on kind of sales tax solutions from, you know, how to comply with, you know, some of the laws. We&#8217;ve already talked about the transaction thresholds, the dollar value thresholds.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so something, you know, that, that both of us, you know, from the Sales Tax Institute and Tax Ops deal with is kind of the vastness of sales tax automation solutions that, you know, people come to us with that our client that are available in the market for our clients.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>What would you say, you know, taxpayers should be looking for, be aware of kind of when you talk to clients and companies about integrating a solution solution and are all of these choices out there, is that a, is it a good or a bad thing?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:08:48\">00:08:48<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s a great question. You know, I&#8217;ve been doing this for more years than I care to admit and you know, I&#8217;ve been doing it from the time when there were only two providers.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:08:59\">00:08:59<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:09:00\">00:09:00<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>It was, it was Vertex, which is still around today, and at the time it was Taxware, which is today Sobos. And you know, that&#8217;s what you had. That&#8217;s. Those were our options.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And you know, having been in this field and watched how the technology has, has progressed, not only just with having more vendors out there, but also having, you know, how much more functionality do we have? You know, back then, you know, the only thing you could use to make a tax decision was a customer code, an item code, and a Jurisdiction.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:09:39\">00:09:39<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right, that&#8217;s it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:09:41\">00:09:41<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Notes back in, I think it was:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"2017\">2017<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And I think it&#8217;s easier because there are more solutions that are out there, there&#8217;s more functionality, the prices have come down and just the number of providers like us have increased. So, you know, is it good to have as many new players in the market as it is? You know, I think it&#8217;s a double edged sword.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think having more providers in the market give us more choice. It also forces the legacy providers to stay on top of their game and to actually be competitive.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So I think those are all really positive things that have come out. But I think what has happened is we&#8217;ve got a lot of newer providers that are very niche and so they hyper specialize in what they do.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And that makes it great if you are a company that is hyper specialized in what that provider does. Like we have some that are really, really hyper specialized in software and SaaS, types of technology or taxation.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But if you decide to move into selling hardware, well, they don&#8217;t have that content now the hardware may very well be taxed. But if they only have the rules for SaaS and not for the hardware, then what do you do?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Or you acquire a company that now has something different, now that software provider can no longer fully support you. So when I get asked how do I decide what is the right provider? I have a couple of key things that are top of my list.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The first and foremost is the taxability content. Do they have the content that you need for your business as it is today and as it is you think it will be in the near future?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:12:06\">00:12:06<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:12:07\">00:12:07<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I mean we never can project of what my company might do growing growth wise.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:12:13\">00:12:13<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:12:14\">00:12:14<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The second is the geography. So are you subject to tax just in the U.S. or do you need to worry about Canada and Mexico?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Are you North America or do you have global needs and there are some providers out there that are strictly us and if you are a digital goods type of company and you&#8217;re selling to end consumers and you have a global audience, that solution is not going to work for you because you&#8217;ve got collection requirements in many other countries because of that. And then the third biggest Thing I think that comes into play is the connectors. What is your selling platform? Are you a Shopify? Are you a QuickBooks?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Are you a NetSuite? Are you a custom built ERP? Are you SAP or Oracle? What is your platform that you&#8217;re selling from? And if you have multiple, what are all those?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And does that tax engine actually have a supported connector? All of the tax engines you can write a custom connector to. But why write a custom connector if another tool has a standard connector?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so to me, those are the three most important things actually in that order.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So your tax content, your geography, and third, your connectors that I think you have to look at, you know, then I think you look at, you know, what is their pricing model? So is it based on revenue? Is it based on transactions? Are they a streamlined provider?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Is that something that&#8217;s important to you to get some of those states for free? Do they do compliance? We&#8217;ve got some out there that only do tax calculation and don&#8217;t do compliance, or vice versa.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Ones that only do compliance and not tax calculation. Do you need exemption certificates? Some of the newer platforms do not support exemption certificates.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And yes, there&#8217;s some standalone exemption certificate providers out there. Maybe you use one of those. But if you want to use streamlined benefits, you have to have the certificates in the calculation engine.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So having an external tool for certificates now just kind of increases your cost with things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So those are the sorts of things that I look at and then, you know, kind of the intangible of, you know, certainly pricing, but I think more importantly, understanding their support. And what are they, what will they do for you? What can they do for you? And what do they do well? And what do they not do well?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>What is their partner ecosystem like?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, if the only people that can implement their software are their own employees and there aren&#8217;t any partners like us that work with them, you&#8217;re going to be really tied to them. And you know, whenever I talk to leadership of software companies, they say, we are not a services business, but they have to do some services.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And in this field, I talk to so many technology companies in this field that say our customers are leaving us because we can&#8217;t answer their sales tax questions, but we don&#8217;t want to answer their sales tax questions. We&#8217;re not a sales tax firm. Can we partner with you? And I&#8217;m sure you guys get the questions too.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so they&#8217;re having to now develop this partner network, which just adds some complexity on all sides, because how do you work with that partner network? Who is a good partner.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, do you want a partner that is experienced in quality like our two firms are, or do you want to go with a startup that maybe has capacity?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And particularly if you&#8217;re in a race to the bottom on pricing with your model, then if you bring in a more experienced, higher end consultant to help your customers, that&#8217;s going to be a mismatch. You got to get somebody that&#8217;s willing to charge a consulting price that aligns with, with your software prices.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So there&#8217;s all of those sorts of things that come into play. I love seeing the new people coming into the market. We&#8217;ve vetted many of them. I&#8217;m not going to name any names.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Some of them, when we go through the vetting, you know, their calculations are wrong and we tell them they&#8217;re wrong and they&#8217;re like, oh, we&#8217;ll come back to you. And we never hear from them again.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, that&#8217;s a tool that I&#8217;m not gonna recommend because I have figured out that they don&#8217;t know how to do tax, you know, and I think that where firms like ours need to be able to stand up and talk to clients about those sorts of things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:16:55\">00:16:55<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, and we&#8217;ve talked to a couple different vendors that are saying, well, you use the native functionality in whatever is in Netsuite or Shopify to kind of like put the tax in your cart, on your invoice, whatever, and then we&#8217;ll remit it. But in the, in, in doing so, we&#8217;ll recalculate the tax and remit what we think should have been on the invoice.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so it&#8217;s like, well, that&#8217;s not helpful. No, right, like, because that&#8217;s not what I charged. That&#8217;s not what I charge my customer. I&#8217;m either collecting and not remitting or I&#8217;m heating.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And it&#8217;s like, I guess, are you just serving the need to file returns? Because, but you&#8217;re acting like you&#8217;re a sales tax like vendor to. Yeah, to get, you know, tax correct.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So it&#8217;s very confusing when you start kind of, because we&#8217;re similar. We&#8217;ll. We&#8217;ll kind of listen to anyone kind of talk about what they&#8217;re doing. And you know, we like to listen to ourselves talk and provoke.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>We have a podcast. Right, obviously, and kind of provide feedback on that. It&#8217;s like, well, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s not helpful. Like you&#8217;re, that&#8217;s not.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So what are you guaranteeing?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:18:09\">00:18:09<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:18:10\">00:18:10<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I know no software vendor guarantees anything, but like there&#8217;s Already immediately a mismatch in what we&#8217;ve charged our customers and what you&#8217;re sending to a state.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:18:19\">00:18:19<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:18:20\">00:18:20<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Stacey:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:18:21\">00:18:21<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right. Well, yeah, and I mean, in all of this is very, you know, appro. You know, it&#8217;s all applicable. Right. I mean, I think we&#8217;ve our.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>We have a lot of clients that come to us asking for our advice, thankfully. Right. But we&#8217;ve got, you know, because they don&#8217;t always know what they&#8217;re buying. Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And this just goes to show, right, that, I mean, we&#8217;ve got the expertise, right, to know, okay, they&#8217;re not charging the correct rate or there&#8217;s certain things that may. That because of the facts of the taxpayers, certain, you know, vendors might not be able to serve them appropriately, those kind of things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right, But I think, you know, taxpayers that don&#8217;t really know. Right. I mean, it&#8217;s just really kind of like a. These are just really kind of tips for the unwary, right?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>To be like, you know, you&#8217;re going to probably get a sales pitch from a software company. Remember, it&#8217;s a software company and the devil&#8217;s in the details.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And if you don&#8217;t really fully understand what you&#8217;re buying, you know, those of us that do this for a living can help you navigate that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But, you know, it&#8217;s just really, you gotta be more proactive about it as opposed to reactive because maybe you&#8217;re, you know, ultimately buying something that you don&#8217;t need.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:19:31\">00:19:31<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:19:32\">00:19:32<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, and we&#8217;ve had people, you know, get sold something at a higher level than what they need, you know, because they don&#8217;t know that, that, you know, do you count all the revenue or just the revenue in the states that you have Nexus, you know, do you count global revenue or just the U.S. you know, how do you count the transactions?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, we&#8217;ve had some vendors tell people they need to register when, you know, their taxable sales is resulting in $5 of tax in a year. And I&#8217;m like, does $5 keep you up at night? Yes. Legally, are you supposed to be registered? But practically, do you need to be registered?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Maybe not, right? You know, and the software companies aren&#8217;t gonna. Aren&#8217;t gonna take that position with anybody. You know. Why?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, they wanna sell more software, right? But also they&#8217;re not, they&#8217;re not in the business of giving tax advice, so they&#8217;re not gonna do that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But yet these customers that are coming to them and that they&#8217;re going to and pitching are looking for somebody that can help them make those decisions.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:20:42\">00:20:42<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>One speaking to kind of your first thing to look out for from like, do you have the right taxability answers? And us kind of.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I think a second part to that is do they also make those answers available to you so you can validate what you&#8217;re calling this product?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Especially kind of in that software space when you have some ambiguity, you&#8217;ve got, you know, enterprise executive exemptions, B2B exemptions, you know, SaaS versus downloaded versus on, you know. Right. A myriad of options and taxability intricacies when you come, when it comes to that product line. So I can&#8217;t just call something SaaS.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Is it direct to consumer, Is it business to business?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Okay, well, if it&#8217;s business to business, are you automatically taking into consideration New Jersey and the business of business exemption, or is it Iowa where it&#8217;s going to tax and. And then you need to provide the certificate. Right. So there are all of these layers that if you don&#8217;t even know SaaS, you know, SaaS. A SaaS.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>A SaaS isn&#8217;t SaaS. Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So if you&#8217;re not going to tell me what this mapping code means from a taxabilities perspective, I can&#8217;t validate what I&#8217;m basing my decision on. And so we have a hard time, or, you know, me in particular, have a hard time recommending a product that we can&#8217;t validate what you&#8217;re doing.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:22:00\">00:22:00<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right, well.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:22:01\">00:22:01<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And I think there&#8217;s two pieces to that, Meredith. One is, do they give you the definition? And then secondly, do they give you a taxability matrix?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s some providers out there that say, no, we can&#8217;t give that. We, we don&#8217;t have one. I&#8217;m like, you have it to build it and you, I hope, are monitoring and maintaining it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So you have to have a matrix somewhere, you know, and we went to a provider that was, you know, one of the newer ones that was offering and, you know, they said, well, for you, we&#8217;ll do it. And we got like our first five codes.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And then when the company added some additional product lines, you know, we couldn&#8217;t get, we couldn&#8217;t even get them to return our calls or emails or anything. And they&#8217;re like, well, you just need to do tests and build your own. And it&#8217;s like, no, that, that is.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:22:59\">00:22:59<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So I&#8217;m gonna test every.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:23:00\">00:23:00<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Expect somebody to go in, in every, every state.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Stacey:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:23:05\">00:23:05<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:23:06\">00:23:06<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jurisdiction. You know, we were at least just trying to get what is the taxability.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, we did one order and luckily we were only in like eight or ten states. So we went in and did an order in each of those states and said, okay, this came back taxable, this came back exempt.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>This came back with a reduced rate, you know, and it was just. But it was a nightmare.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And how a software company cannot provide that content, you know, and say we don&#8217;t have one, doesn&#8217;t make any sense because you have to have it, you know. But yes, it&#8217;s, I think it&#8217;s good that there&#8217;s more providers out there. I think competition is always good and getting new and different ideas.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>rik&#8217;s first hit the market in:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"2000 \">2000<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>They said this can work outside of the United States and Canada. Canada is not a state. It is a separate country. You know, and I think that was amazing.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think the next one when Avalara came in, you know, they said all right, it needs to be, you know, know, scalable down instead of scalable up. You know, how do we make this work for small businesses? And I think that was great and, and the different providers that have come after that.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>But you know, when I look at who are the two companies that probably had the biggest impact on changing this market, Obviously Tax War and Vertex starting it out back, you know, decades ago. But then I think in Avalara really, really, really kind of turned it upside down and, and, and has made it move to where it is today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Where there are, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s an easier market to enter, you know, as a company but it&#8217;s been a fun ride.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:25:15\">00:25:15<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>It some days maybe less fun, more fun than others.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:25:20\">00:25:20<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:25:21\">00:25:21<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Y And so as we wrap up, is there anything, you know, you shared, you know, some things that are kind of in discussion in Illinois. So we appreciate that and gave us things to, to set in our Google Alerts.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Anything else you think we should pay attention to, look out for as we kind of close up?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:25:44\">00:25:44<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I, I think the next thing that we really have to pay attention to and any businesses that are in the digital space really, really need to be on top of and I would encourage them to get involved with it is the taxation of software services and digital goods. You know the multi state tax commission has a working group on this. I&#8217;m active in that streamlined is adding new things.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s actually, you know, a call I have today.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re going to, you know, we are looking at adding additional definitions in the digital goods space, we might get to where streamlined is going to define SaaS.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not 100% sure if we&#8217;re going to get all the way there, but I think this is where, you know, people that are in that space as sellers in particular, really need to be aware of this. But everybody is buying those sorts of digital goods. And as much as I hate to admit it, the tax is going to broaden this.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so, you know, getting in at the ground level and making sure we&#8217;re coming up with appropriate definitions, I think is really important.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So any of your listeners that are in this space, if they&#8217;re not involved, you know, reach out, you know, to me, you know, I don&#8217;t know if any of you guys are in on either of those two work groups yet. You can reach out to Streamlined, you can reach out to the mtc. All of those calls, the MTC calls are all open to the public.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s a separate work group that&#8217;s closed, but the monthly calls are open to the public. Many of the streamlined meetings are open to the public. And, you know, right now what we&#8217;re trying to do is gather.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Gather products and services that we need, you know, what are the challenging things, you know, that, that we need to have the states look at and that the business needs to come up with. And this is where I think it&#8217;s really important for businesses to be a little bit more open and willing to share, like, what is it that I&#8217;m selling?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, how do I contract for it? What is the underlying technology of IT to help the states figure out, is this software? Is this a service? Is this a digital good?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Is it telecommunications? Is it a professional service?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, what is it that, that all of this is really kind of melding together, that it&#8217;s getting harder and harder to pull those pieces apart and figure out how to tax them.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And so that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re working on right now is trying to come up with what are all of these different things that we&#8217;re struggling with, with that we need help saying, let&#8217;s get a definition for these things. So I think that&#8217;s the next thing or another thing that, that people really need to be paying attention to.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And, and then, you know, I can&#8217;t go without saying the impact of tariffs.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:28:48\">00:28:48<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:28:50\">00:28:50<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Whatever that may change from the date of recording to, right, any minute.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:28:56\">00:28:56<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. And it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s not only tariffs, but it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s all kinds of other things. It&#8217;s surcharges.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, we just have to go back to the basics of what is the definition of the sales tax base. So even five years ago, it was surcharges to cover health, cleaning, stuff that, that people had to do, and masks and everything else to be open.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You know, all these surcharges for different things. Then we moved into, you know, wage supplements.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>So surcharges to be able to pay higher wages to employees, all of those just become part of the tax base. Tariffs are no different.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Tariffs that exist today, tariffs that may exist tomorrow, it&#8217;s just part of the tax base means the states are going to be getting more sales tax revenue because it&#8217;s going to be a higher price.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And whether you separately stake those on your invoice because you&#8217;re calling out that it&#8217;s the tariff that&#8217;s raising the price or not, they&#8217;re still part of the tax phase.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:29:53\">00:29:53<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Well, thank you, Diane, as always, for your knowledge, your time, your friendship. We just really appreciate any opportunity to get to hang out with you. So thank you again for visiting us here on this Ultivation podcast.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Diane:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:30:09\">00:30:09<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Thanks for having me and it&#8217;s always a pleasure. So have a great day everybody, and let&#8217;s keep these conversations going, going.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Meredith:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:30:16\">00:30:16<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>And this is another episode of SALTovation. Till next time.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><cite>Intro:<\/cite><span>\u00a0<\/span><time><a class=\"cp-timestamp\" data-timestamp=\"00:30:21\">00:30:21<\/a><\/time><span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended, nor should it be relied upon as legal tax, accounting or investment advice. You should consult with a competent professional to discuss specifics of your situation and the applicability of the information presented.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n<\/article>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"episode-sharing d-lg-none\"><\/div>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Comments&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; background_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/05\/podcast-01.png&#8221; parallax=&#8221;on&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; background_size__hover=&#8221;cover&#8221; background_size__hover_enabled=&#8221;cover&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;Lato|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; header_2_font_size=&#8221;52px&#8221; header_2_line_height=&#8221;1.2em&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; header_2_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_2_font_size_phone=&#8221;36px&#8221; header_2_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h2>Related Episodes<\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; divider_weight=&#8221;5px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; max_width=&#8221;120px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8221;1_2,1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_button button_url=&#8221;https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/saltovation-making-sense-of-state-and-local-tax\/id1517450565&#8243; button_text=&#8221;Subscribe on Apple Podcasts&#8221; button_alignment=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_tablet=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_phone=&#8221;&#8221; button_alignment_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_button=&#8221;on&#8221; button_text_size=&#8221;14px&#8221; button_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; button_bg_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; button_border_width=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_border_color=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.1)&#8221; button_border_radius=&#8221;0px&#8221; button_letter_spacing=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_font=&#8221;Lato|700||on|||||&#8221; button_icon=&#8221;&#xe09e;||divi||400&#8243; button_on_hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;14px|30px|14px|30px|true|true&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover_enabled=&#8221;on|hover&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|40px|||true|false&#8221;][\/et_pb_button][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_button button_url=&#8221;https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/7M0RZGgWG8A2Vd4okyR2yc?si=umxHEOq4SbCRp4nLy7LBgA&#8221; button_text=&#8221;Subscribe on Apple Podcasts&#8221; button_alignment=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_tablet=&#8221;left&#8221; button_alignment_phone=&#8221;&#8221; button_alignment_last_edited=&#8221;on|tablet&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_button=&#8221;on&#8221; button_text_size=&#8221;14px&#8221; button_text_color=&#8221;#003254&#8243; button_bg_color=&#8221;#A0CD46&#8243; button_border_width=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_border_color=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.1)&#8221; button_border_radius=&#8221;0px&#8221; button_letter_spacing=&#8221;2px&#8221; button_font=&#8221;Lato|700||on|||||&#8221; button_icon=&#8221;&#xe0b5;||divi||400&#8243; button_on_hover=&#8221;off&#8221; background_layout=&#8221;dark&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;14px|30px|14px|30px|true|true&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover_enabled=&#8221;on|hover&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|40px|||true|false&#8221;][\/et_pb_button][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This week we continue our conversation with Diane Yetter, President and Founder of Yetter Tax and the Sales Tax Institute. We unpack recent changes to Illinois tax law\u2014specifically through the lens of the PetMeds case\u2014and explore the broader impact of South Dakota\u2019s use tax ruling. We also break down what these shifts mean for taxpayers and why it\u2019s more important than ever to stay alert in the ever-changing world of state and local taxation.<\/p>\n<p>From choosing the right software to understanding key decision factors like taxability content, geographic coverage, and platform compatibility, listen for practical insights for businesses navigating this complex space.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":15032,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"on","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"2880","spt_transcript":"Meredith Smith: Let's make sure we're recording. That would be bad. All right. Kim, thank you so much for joining us today on the Saltivation Podcast. It's great to have you here. \r\nKim Blascoe: Well, I'm very excited to be joining you as well. So hopefully we have some really good conversation on different things that we're doing in the industry.\r\nMeredith Smith: Yes. And on that note, so can you give us, um, kind of what your professional background is? \r\nKim Blascoe: Sure. So I'm a CPA by trade. I still am licensed. I practiced for a little over 30 years before I joined CPA.com last year in June. Originally I had a tax and accounting practice, which basically at that point in time had SALT and payroll as part of the service offerings that we did.\r\nAnd then in December of 2010, I was actually merging with an Illinois regional firm when the Whipley opportunity came back around for them. So, I tailcoat merged into Whitley, and at that point, I actually took over the national accounting practice that Whitley had. Now, at that point in time, Whitley was a large regional Wisconsin regional firm. So, we were the first Illinois merger, and we had two offices in Minnesota and two offices in India. And when I actually left Whitley, we were a top 20 firm. So many, many, many mergers later. Uh, I got a lot of experience in adding other accounting practices to the one that I was working with. \r\n[00:03:12] Meredith Smith: Yeah. So then why choose to leave public accounting for CPA. com? What was that drive? \r\n[00:03:19] Kim Blascoe: I'd spent 30 years in practice, like I mentioned, and I loved mentoring younger associates or people that were early on in their careers.\r\nIt was one of the best things that I did. And also I loved working with clients, but I really felt like I wanted to do something more and I had all this experience with, you know, everything I had done. Like I said, you know, with Whipley was a regional firm. And when I joined, I had my own small firm. They were a medium sized firm.\r\nIf you want to look at that way. And when I left, they were a very, very large firm. So I had done the gamut of understanding the opportunities and the challenges of being in different size firms. And I just felt like I really had more to share. So, um, the cpa. com opportunity. Came up and I kind of thought that my background was perfect for the opportunity.\r\nAnd I just jumped at the chance to make a change, which was kind of scary because for 30 years, I'd been doing, you know, really predominantly the same thing, although in in different size environments. But I just kind of switched my mentoring, even though I'd still do mentoring on an individual basis. But I switched my mentoring over to firms.\r\nI look at it just as a different mentoring challenge and an opportunity that I've been given, you know, a little bit later on in my career. \r\n[00:04:32] Judy Vorndran: Interesting. That makes a lot of sense though, at a certain point in my, I'm at that. Getting close to retirement age and kids are almost launched and I'm like, what am I doing?\r\nI have a firm. So, you know, trying to support the younger generation on our team to have a future at our firm and wherever that lies. Yeah, super interesting. And obviously encourage the younger generation to pursue these careers because they're really great.\r\n[00:05:01] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, and I think, you know, when you say, you know, people wanting to become partners, I think 1 of the things that we really work with, um, when we talk to firms as having a career path, especially inside of the cast practice, but even inside of assault practice, you know, salt didn't exist when I came into the practice.\r\nRight? And we did most of those services inside of cast. It kind of more and same with our payroll group. They were all part of CAS originally. And then when I, by the time I left, those were all separate service lines and had matured and added advisory to all of them as well. So, it was no longer a compliance based business.\r\nIt was now a compliance and advisory based business. So, you know, we've seen a lot of changes happen over the years inside of practices. And I think the importance of that is, is all the service offerings that have been added really need to have career paths so that individuals feel like they can, if their desire is to become partner and not everybody's desire is, but if the desire is to become partner, that we give them those opportunities in these other areas of service.\r\n[00:06:03] Judy Vorndran: Right. It's a real great opportunity, I think, to be entrepreneurial, which is why I stayed in public accounting, despite multiple offers to go into industry. I thought, well, once I figure out the problem, because clearly you have 1 that I want, what am I going to do? It's become wrote and no, not the same, but just similar.\r\nAnd so I'm like, I really love the diversity of lots and lots of clients and lots of issues and trying to figure it all out. Yeah. And it's a giant puzzle. \r\n[00:06:26] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, I never did the private side either. And maybe that was part of it. I always thought I'd get bored working with just like 1 company versus the opportunity to work with many companies.  \r\n[00:06:35] Judy Vorndran: yeah. And you're always on the curve. You're always learning. There's always something new to learn in this and all of it. You know, new accounting practices, international, national, new rules, new laws, all the good things. So it's a constantly learning profession, which. \r\n[00:06:49] Kim Blascoe: I'm not going to lie to you, though. I always tell everybody if I had to practice in the salt space, you would probably have to stab my eyeballs. So I'm always so incredibly thankful that there are people that love that space. \r\nJudy Vorndran: I mean, like, why is it though, do you think people hate it so much? I mean, it's just such a negative. \r\n[00:07:09] Kim Blascoe: I think for me, it's like, it's so like standard driven.\r\nLike there's so many rules and regulations that you need to understand. I was always just incredibly happy. Like Jessica Macklin at Whipley is who I always worked with. We were kind of in the same region and actually I'm going to do a session with her at DCPA on the crossover between Salt and Kaz. I saw that on that schedule.\r\nOkay. Okay. So I'm excited about that because I think now it's, it's an opportunity out there that is still very, very, it's a very underutilized practice. Right. So, you know, it's just not experienced.\r\n[00:07:44] Judy Vorndran: I'm an attorney and a CPA, which is probably why I practice in the area because. I think it's incredibly creative to look at the rules and see how they apply, right?\r\nBecause it's not black and white, especially with software and information services and tech and biotech. And there's just so many nuances to business. It's not like everybody sells a thing, right? And that's taxable. So sales tax is very nuanced. Income tax dates are very nuanced. So the creativity aspect of like, what's your position?\r\nWho are you in this state allows for some reattribution of income and also some, you know, obviously some compliance services that you need to manage the expectations of each of those governments to manage your business risk. But, um, yeah, I think that's really interesting though, because so many people do really hate our area.\r\nAnd I really wish that we didn't have that negative spin because it creates like bad energy around it. I mean, all of us on the team, like we dig on it. Like we don't look at it as negative. We look at it like, oh, it's a really cool puzzle. We're going to have to go figure out how to do it. And then we have, you know, because business has one sort of rule.\r\nAnd so, we just have to apply those rules by state. It's not that hard if you know the business, but we get to dive into the business transactionally, which a lot of providers don't. They roll it up. They do what? What is the gross revenue? They don't look at the nuances. We look at the transactions. So, I think it's really interesting as you look how Business makes money.\r\n[00:09:05] Kim Blascoe: And I think a lot of people go, we need all sorts to make the world go around. That's always incredibly happy that people like to actually, even in the payroll space, the payroll space, the payroll tax return space in the sales tax space, but I also think are in salt all the way around, I think the other thing on the SALT side of the house is that, you know, a lot of businesses don't even realize that there's a lot more to salt than a lot of them.\r\nThink of it as sales tax. Right. And even then. They don't know the rules from state to state and the pandemic has so changed the dynamics of how businesses work that a lot of businesses have become national and they don't know what the rules are. Sometimes they think, well, I'm not selling a product.\r\nOkay, but you're sending somebody into that state for a product that you shipped, right? You know, so, like, what are all the rules on that? Where do you have to file? Where do I need to get registered as a business? You know, most people just skate right past all of that. And, you know, I always look at it as, is ignorance bliss, but is it really ignorance? I think it's more of like, they don't even know what they don't know. Right. Right. \r\n[00:10:03] Judy Vorndran: And it's fear. There's a lot of fear of like overwhelm and stress, which I find very interesting because they figured out, I mean, I have clients that have sold 46, 000 products. Right. I'm like, you know, how to like, A plumbing company knows how to tell you this is all the things you buy in order to replumb your kitchen.\r\nHow did you do that? You can absolutely do tax. Absolutely, because if you could figure that problem out, it's very similar. Logical, you know, add the things. But there is this thing out there of complexity, and I think tech has tried to solve some of it, but they lack the knowledge of the tax background.\r\nThey have the tech, but without the tax acumen. So, we've got this marriage happening in, In a software automation, that's not allowing both sides to be the way it needs to be to advocate on behalf of clients, which I know is why CPA dot com years ago chose Vertex as its chosen provider. I don't think that's so much the case anymore. I'm not sure. Cause they were like the preeminent. They've been around the longest and all that good stuff. So yeah, but there are a lot of providers out there now. \r\n[00:11:04] Kim Blascoe: There are. And there are a lot of choices. It's just like all the rest of the technology too. And it's like fairly overwhelming sometimes how many options you have out there, but the importance of those options, I think, especially in the salt spaces, it is an area that, that, that you have to have some expertise and you have to spend some time digging into it.\r\nAnd businesses don't do that on their own. Right. And I think the other thing, you know, the other thing that maybe has some bad connotations around it on the salt side is it's another tax, right? You're telling your clients that. Oh, now you might have to do sales tax, or you might have to do income tax in multiple states.\r\nAnd they're just like, taxed out, right? They're just tax, tax, tax. Everybody always wants money from me. And so it's not always even a pleasant conversation. It's not an area where you can work with client. I mean, you have to work through the value side of it. Right. And, and even like the compliance side of it and like ease of mind that you're doing the right thing, or at least you've been told like what, you know, that right thing is.\r\nI, prior to me leaving Whipley, I actually did a wealth and asset management build out and CAS was one of the service offerings that we did. And when you think about what that wealth and asset management industry does, they have clients everywhere all the way across the United States, right? And they're flying to all of these places.\r\nAnd I used to have, I used to bring Jessica into my conversations all the time and say, talk to them about nexus, talk to them about their, what their state filing requirements are. They may not have a sales tax, but they may also have a sales tax, some state stacks on service, right? You know? So it's like they need to understand. And then from there, they can make the decision about where they want to file and where they don't want to file. \r\n[00:12:37] Judy Vorndran: want to \r\n[00:12:37] Kim Blascoe: file. \r\n[00:12:37] Judy Vorndran: Well, it's funny being at the big four because I was national. So I really cared about the big states, Illinois, New York, California, Texas, Florida, 10, you know, 10 percent of the U. S. nation. I cared less about South Dakota, North Dakota, but then I worked for Eide Bailey and they were sited in North Dakota, South Dakota.\r\nSo, that was our biggest offices and the build out sprung for there. So I had, I had, Went to, you know, I went to hearings in those states. I flew into Pierre, South Dakota to do a hearing on behalf of a taxpayer. I mean, there are big taxpayers in South Dakota, North Dakota. You would have never known, you know, and also as you get to see America, you see there's a lot happening in our country that a lot of people that the CPA community doesn't understand, which is why I think SALT is so important for the CPA to build that tech stack or that competency so that the CPA firms can be successful.\r\nAnd then they're not. Blame for not telling them because there is this thing I feel like maybe mentioned that before my husband, you know, I'm a lawyer and a CPA and I, my specialty is state and local, but not income anymore from a federal perspective. Right? Even though I have a master's of tax, I've rolled away from being a federal tax practitioner.\r\nI'm state and local. So I can't even do my own personal income tax return. And I think a lot of people think, why, why not? Like, cause I don't know, keep up with the personal deductions and so forth. And my husband says to me, who is a securities lawyer and litigator, he says, I don't understand why CPA say they can do all these things when they can't, they can't do accounting services and compilations and audits and tax returns and, and, and financial accounting and income tax.\r\nAnd there's a lot of things in the CPA world that you could do for a living, and you could silo it and get that great, good competency. You don't have to be a generalist, even you running your own practice that was audit and tax. I can't even imagine. How hard that must have been. \r\n[00:14:18] Kim Blascoe: Well, you know, back then though, most practices were generalist practices. They were about the practices that we merged in at Whipley. Most of those practices were generalist practices. Now I would say, probably maybe 10 years ago, five at for sure at the minimum, that started to change inside of practices. And we started doing exactly what you were saying is like maybe moving towards a focus.\r\nSo a practice focus and an industry focus that became very relevant inside firms. And I think even in the smaller firms, they started thinking about what are we good at and what are we not good at, right? Let's focus on that. And now you see cast practices that are really what we call to as BPO business process outsourcing practices that only focus on CAS. They don't do anything else or they have cast and they have tax and they don't do anything beyond that. There's not a test type of services. So I, I think we're seeing that that transition happen within terms and I, but I will also tell you, there are a lot of firms that are still working on getting rid of the generalist concept.\r\nOh, yeah. It's a hard push to get people. \r\n[00:17:14] Kim Blascoe: I think we look at the CAS side of the practice as an opportunity for individuals that went through accounting curriculums or maybe economics or business majors or something like that, that really thought their only option was to go into private, to go to work for a company because they didn't want to do the commitment of the tax season hours or the audit season hours.\r\nAnd so cast gives them an opportunity and potentially Salt would as well, but it gives them an opportunity to stay into or enter into public practice or come back to public practice because there is now this, you know, these consulting opportunities that didn't exist originally. And they looked at it as all compliance based, and it was a drug of ours.\r\nAnd so we feel like we're transforming that whole. You know, space from the advisory aspect of it, so that there are opportunities for individuals that really aren't compliance based because a lot of practices that a lot of cast practices look at the financial statement as a byproduct of the service offerings that they're doing.\r\nSo, if we have that mentality, and we're thinking cast practices are. You know, focused on the advisory piece that do the transactional and accounting controller type of functions so that they have good data in order to do the CFO and the trusted advisor. You know, that's all really important for firms. And firms are still very much struggling to try to get there. \r\n[00:18:35] Judy Vorndran: Well, yeah, and the data thing, too, we actually hired someone who didn't get a CPA, but is a CPA kind of by training and decided to become a data wrangler, basically, which is not what is he's got some extra studying and understanding all data management.\r\nSo, we can assimilate data with lots of different repositories to get good filing information because people roll things up at the transaction level data is so important. And so that has been an interesting pivot for our team to think that way, because we're really good with Excel and, making spreadsheets and all that. But is there other things that we can do to ingest to create, what do you call it, some kind of a process that's not like us moving it into a spreadsheet and wrangling it.\r\n[00:19:14] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, and I think with all the technology changes that are happening now, one of the things that that we are very focused on in the whole discussion around and what does that mean to practices public accounting firm and cast practices is looking at the processes that you're doing manually, looking at the things that you're still doing in those Excel spreadsheets and saying, this is what kind of technology can help replace this so that I can move on to the advisory piece?\r\nRight? So we're trying to automate as much as we can on that back end. So that the value that we're bringing to clients is the conversations we're having with them and the knowledge that we can share with them. And the, uh. Um, the opportunity to help them grow their, their businesses and, you know, maybe potentially meet their goals, right?\r\nSo that's all, that's our goal is their goal, right? So figuring out how do we work with firms so that we can help or practice businesses so that we can help them, you know, meet their goals and their growth. So I'm not sure how much we got to raid. \r\n[00:20:08] Judy Vorndran: Meredith, \r\n[00:20:09] Kim Blascoe: but you take the rest of it. \r\n[00:20:12] Meredith Smith: So Kim, speaking with that, what is the mission of cpa.com? \r\n[00:20:18] Kim Blascoe: So CPA.com, um, actually started as the technical arm of the CPA. And so we really started with a whole concept of, um, helping firms and practices grow in the digit in a digital transformation space. So, very focused on technology, what has been added over probably the last. Few years is we now have a full professional services practice, which is the cast side of the house is what I lead.\r\nWe also have an audit side of the house, which is the technology that was built. So, you know, working with on the CAS side, working with firms to help transform their practices. Right? So working with them on potentially what's their, you know, what's their vision and mission? What service offerings are they going to have?\r\nWhat clients do they want to work with who's going to do the work? You know, what does that work look like? What processes are there? What technology are we throwing at it? How are we going to price it? You know, how are we going to assess clients coming in? So that we know that we're scoping that work appropriately.\r\nAnd ultimately, how are we going to market all of that? So that people know what we're selling right from a, from a firm perspective. So we're very focused on that side of it. We have a lot of, um, education and training that we focus on. We have coaching and consulting programs that we do. So we've changed a lot from just being the technology arm, but technology is still a very big focus for cpa.com and a huge part of our mission. \r\n[00:21:45] Judy Vorndran: Is that like a fee for service thing as well, though, that part of it? \r\n[00:21:49] Kim Blascoe: So, so we do a lot of different things. So we do have, offerings that there's a fee attached to them. But we do a lot of freemium type of stuff. So we do tons of webinars that are free and we do it on our topics that we help practices transform our coaching and consulting is a fee based practice. Uh, some of our education is free base. The webinar stuff is, uh, is free. And some of it is fee. Like, we do some workshops and stuff like that that are have fees attached to them. We do tons of white paper. Um, if you go out on the CPA dot com website, there's a ton of resources out there that are all free to firms.\r\nAnd we are getting ready to launch a toolkit in our professional practices for transformation, because we have a lot of firms that are DIY firms. They like to do things themselves, but they want. They want the tools that we use, and it's not all the tools that we use, but it's a lot of the tools that we use in our coaching and consulting program.\r\nSo if they want to transform their own practice, we're going to give them the essential tools that they can use to get there. Right. So, but we have a lot of firms that are going through the coaching program and we kind of took our workshop that we've always done the CAS roadmap workshop. That we've done for like 15 years.\r\nI went through it in 2017. Maybe it's only been 13 years. I went through it in 2017 and I was like, so invigorated on what I learned. And I'm like, oh, this is so cool. I'm going to go back to my practice and I'm going to start implementing. Well, then you go back to your practice. Cause this was back pre COVID.\r\nSo we were on site for a few days together. So we went back to our practices. Got busy with my day to day, you know, responsibilities, my leadership role and stuff like that. And then a year later I reached out to my cpa.com rep and I'm like, okay, what do you have for me? Like I'm, I'm ready to get started now.\r\nAnd she goes, well, the workshop is all we have. I mean, this is a long story that I'm going to bring around short. I'm like, oh, okay. So I took it upon myself. So I really took that DIY role and I, I worked through transforming. Now, what was a fairly major CAS practice? Because our accounting practice, because we had done all these mergers, right?\r\nSo I had 37 offices. Everybody was doing everything differently. And we're like. Where do we start? So when I came to cpa.com and one of the reasons I joined cpa.com is they asked me to build out our coaching program, our coaching and consulting program. So I took what I wanted, what I was looking for back in 2018, when I came back and said, I've now spent a year not doing anything, can you help me?\r\nAnd I built it. I you know, with a team of people inside of cpa.com, we literally built out. An accountable program, so we took some content of the roadmap workshop and dove deep into a lot of that content. And now it's an 18 month program. We do a variety of, um, group sessions, and then one on one coaching sessions and round table sessions.\r\nAnd we pick a new topic each quarter, and we work through those topics, building it out with the firms. We provide them with the tools they have homework. So there's accountability. So you don't go back to your practice and not do anything and then wonder why. You know, your practice isn't transforming. So, you know, that was, that was one of the big reasons why I did come to cpa.com so that I could help other firms work through what took me two years to do. It was a two-year project. We had a huge human capital piece of it. So anytime you're working with human capital and change management, there's a lot of warm, fuzzy stuff and, and. You know, our HR team was telling us, you know, you just can't do that.\r\nYou have to go about it this way, you know, so just the human capital part of it for me, because I had a team of like 180 people at that point in time that were between India and the U S you know, so we had a lot of changes that we did inside of our practice and you know, all of that kind of got rolled and rolled into our coaching and consulting.\r\nInteresting. So, freemium and stuff that you have to pay for. Because is it self report? Well, yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say a lot of our freemium stuff also comes with CPE, so if you join our webinars and stuff, you get free CPE hours, and you can get a lot of them. And I think it's like, a lot of CPAs that are looking for CPE don't realize that there's so much free CPE out there with really good topics and substance.\r\n[00:25:50] Judy Vorndran: Yeah, we've really got, we've taken advantage of it because we're a small firm. We teach and go to things just because we want to stay current with the legal changes and so forth. But we've done it, taken advantage of a lot of that because there's so much out there that's free content that'll give you the CPE hours you want and get some information.\r\nIt's very interesting the way how that shifted. You know, I know a lot of, and a lot of associations made their money off the CPE, right? Or the, I'm a lawyer to continually education, but now other providers are giving it and they're being paid sometimes by a vendor or something. So it's really transformed the way you and I get up to date as opposed to sitting in a conference room, you can get an hour and still move on with the rest of your day and not be completely bonked down, losing several days at work. Yeah. Super interesting. \r\n[00:26:34] Kim Blascoe: I will tell you though, when we went virtual with everything during the pandemic, I'm like, I missed people. I missed going to conferences. I missed my friends like Jenny Hattori that had the same pain points back then as I had, cause our practices were very similar that you can't shift that part of it but you definitely can look at other opportunities.\r\nAnd there's so many now, from a virtual perspective, there's just so many that you certainly can solve a lot of that with freebies. \r\n[00:27:42] Meredith Smith: So then with that coaching and mentoring, what do you see CPA firms struggle with a lot? Or is there a common denominator of just kind of reoccurring items that just continually come up when you work with various CPA firms and leadership and whatnot?\r\n[00:27:59] Kim Blascoe: Tom Hood just, um, put out a new slide that I thought was really, really interesting. I asked him if I could steal it and I told him every time I talked about it, I'd throw his name out there. Um, and it talked about, it looked at April, 2023 and April, 2024. And it was talking about exactly what you just asked me, like, what are firms struggling with?\r\nRight. And I thought it was interesting to see some of the movement of the topics and like, You know, one topic actually went away, but for 2024, it was literally like technology, keeping up with technology due to accelerated digital transformation in gen AI and how AI is like in every conversation that we have these days.\r\nRight. Almost like it had never existed before. And, and really, I talk about it all the time. It's like I do a lot of work with Sage Intact and Nicole Kasich is always like, we had AI. It's just people didn't know we had AI. Right. So now it's like, A buzzword, so that's our, that's our current buzzword.\r\nThe other 1 was upscaling existing talent, which is still a big struggle with firms, even though we are making some headway on resolving that, especially in the cast practice space and then finding and retaining talent is another 1. now, finding and retaining talent was at the top of the list in 2023 and it moved down to, I think, number 3 or 4 in 2024.\r\nSo. Maybe we've made a little headway on it, but it's not going away. And part of that is probably because we know that there aren't as many accounting candidates coming out of universities as much as we had, like, you know, when I came out of university. So that's a little bit different. And then the last 1 is, you know, still working through maintaining a firm culture and a hybrid environment.\r\nI think, you know, there's still our struggles with that. We, we hear firms are talking about pulling people back in a couple of days a week. So that there is some of that. Sense of community inside of the firms and, you know, kind of continuing to build culture because it is kind of hard to build culture when you spend all your time on virtual calls.\r\nRight? You know, so. We're seeing a lot of those changes, but, you know, the people side of it is still a big struggle and technology, you know, is changing faster than it ever has before. So people trying to keep up with all of that is, you know, also a big pain point for firms.  \r\n[00:30:13] Meredith Smith: So, when you talk about upscaling existing talent, what exactly does that mean?\r\n[00:30:19] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, so, so I'll speak from a CAS practice perspective, but it really is something across the, across the entire gamut of public accounting firms. So, we have people that come out of school, And have basically been taught compliance based stuff, right? It's all still technical training, not very much, even soft skill training.\r\nWhen you think about that. So, we have these kids coming out of school and, and we're looking at them and we're saying, okay, it took me 20 years to build my advisory level skill set that I have. You don't have 20 years. So how can we get you to an advisor level type of role? So, as quickly as possible and, and, and what do we, what can we do to do that?\r\nSo, first of all, you know, we're looking at our practices and we're saying, you know, let's take a skills gap assessment on what you have today, because if you want your services to include advisory services, you have to have the people that actually can deliver the advisory services. And so often in our practices right now, we don't have that, especially in our cast practices.\r\nWe have a lot of cast practices that are really, really good at transactional through. Um, consult or controller type of services and they can't figure out how to move beyond that. So, you know, that's one of the things we work with firms on in our coaching program is, you know, thinking about the whole build.\r\nSo we call it kind of building a factory. Like, you wouldn't open a door to a factory with only 1 piece of equipment. If you need 6 pieces of equipment to do the, to deliver the product that you want to deliver. We need our cast practices to think that way too. So if you look at your services. We look at who you're going to work for, like the clients, basically the industry niche that you're going to work in, like who's going to deliver that and how do we get those people upskilled to those, to those different skill sets that we have today.\r\nSome people will never be able to deliver. Consulting services and advisory services. It's just not in their DNA. They're technical people. We need technical people. That's all good. I think we just have to, embrace the fact that not everybody's going to be an advisor, but the people that you do see, like, a glimmer, like, early on in their, in their careers, it's like, those are the individuals you grab, you mentor, you put in upscaling programs.\r\nWe're actually working. I'm hoping by will have a launch on this for 2025, or at least, uh, um, uh, here's what's coming in 2025. We are building out kind of like, how to build a trusted advisor. How do you build an advisor type of role that will have, like, a boot camp basket aspect to it. So, like, they can come and spend 3 days on site somewhere, and it literally is like, you know, doing, like, um.\r\nWorking with other people and doing role play type of stuff, you know, so that individuals get more comfortable doing that. Because again, we don't have 20 years to build these advisors. We need it now. Clients are asking for these services that they weren't asking for 10 years ago. Certainly the pandemic has changed a lot of that too.\r\nThat scared a lot of people. There were a lot of businesses that ended up not making it because they didn't have the cash flow. That they needed to sustain a pandemic, right? So there was no cash flow planning. There was nobody. I mean, nobody realized a pandemic was going to happen. Right? I don't know.\r\nMaybe some doomsday people were saying it was going to happen. Most of us didn't believe it. Right? And I think even when we were still home, almost a year later, we still didn't believe we were like, in the situation that we were in. But, you know, you think about, like, how do we get the, how do we get individuals.\r\nTo a point where, where the skillsets that they have match the services that we're providing inside of practices. And, and firms are looking all the time for opportunities to upskill those individuals. There's just not a lot out there. That's still an area that's being widely built out from a training and education perspective.\r\n[00:34:04] Judy Vorndran: For sure. Because you learn rules and we should clarify that CAS means client advisory services, which is a very broad based word. I mean, right, acronym because honestly, client advisory, like. What does that mean? \r\n[00:35:14] Kim Blascoe: One of the things that we're really working with now advisory leaders.\r\nSo one step up from CAS leaders, because most of our cast leaders roll up through advisory inside of public practices, especially the large firms. Right? So one of the things we're working on at CPA.com is how do we take all those advisory services, right? There's a lot of them. Anything that doesn't fall into tax or audit or a test.\r\nFalls into advisory or consulting services, right? So how do we take all of those services and start focusing on the client centric model where what's the best for the client? So like not thinking about a lot of times in bar, which is the direct technology build for a client rather than going through like a client advisory services practices, where we build the technology for the client, right?\r\nThat we're going to use for that client. So a little bit different. Model like they're very focused on a get in and get out model. CAS is very focused on get in and stay model, right? You know? So it's a, it's a very, very different model, but you know, one of the things on the bar side of the house is they're very focused on selling this and moving on to my next sale.\r\nWe're not like that, right? So we're like, how do we get everybody thinking bigger? So, and also a lot of the larger firms have an outsource CFO practice. So if you take those, the bar, the outsource CFO, the cast practice. And you start getting them to work together on what's the best opportunity for the client?\r\nWhat's best for the client? And what's also then does that make it good for the firm? Right? So, you know, we want to say to the bar practice is just building out that technology for client the right move. Or should you be talking to the client about potentially client advisory services? Maybe they don't need a tech build.\r\nMaybe they just need outsourced accounting and CFO services. So, and that could solve their problem. And then the firm benefits from that too, because it's not a one time fee and it's recurring revenue. Yeah, it's recurring revenue and everybody loves recurring revenue. You think about all the, oh yeah.\r\nStuff that's happening now. They love the re recurring revenue, so they immediately go to the advisory. They love cast practices because it is based off of recurring revenue. \r\n[00:37:20] Judy Vorndran: Yep. No, it's a huge. And I found that myself, cause we've done a lot of automation where we'll set people up to click sales tax, get them licensed, all the things, and then they don't maintain it.\r\nOr the people that started it helped get it set up, leave. And you're thinking, oh, my gosh, nobody's watching it anymore. You were watching it. Who's going to watch it now? And I think there's a lot of that happening in the co sourcing outsourcing area and in software where people are thinking, set it, forget it is just not correct.\r\nIt's not set it, forget it. So there's a huge disparity between what software companies and tech, you know, all the things is just rolling up where people like, I don't know. They want to hand it off because they're CEOs that are visionaries, but they are like, I didn't pick the right pieces to get my business in order.\r\n[00:38:16] Meredith Smith: So then kind of in the, in the spirit of that kind of dynamic, Software recurring revenue kind of changes in what ways are you seeing CPA firms kind of pivoting and transforming their practices?\r\n[00:38:32] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, so I think 1 of the most important things that we need to think through is that. We are still a fairly compliance based industry, right? And there's so much competition other than a test, which we own, right? The audit space. Accounting firms own that space. Other than a test, though, we really public accounting firms don't own anything else.\r\nRight? So tax, CAS services, all these additional advisory services, technically, anybody with a skill set can do those. And we are seeing competition come into the space that is very compliance based, but also very client centric. Right? So they throw a bunch of technology at it. They're they have a very specific ideal client profile that they're going after and they have way more money.\r\nA lot of them are back, so they have a lot more money to throw at things. So I think the importance to the accounting industry is to take a step back and say, where are we only doing compliance? And can we add advisory to everything that we're doing from a compliance perspective? And then also looking at what advisory and outsourcing opportunities are we not, do we not have in our, in our toolkit today that we should potentially look at adding.\r\nAnd the importance of that is, is that CPA firms still have the relationship with the majority of clients, right? So if you look at we mentioned in the beginning, there's 46,000 CPA firms out there, right? And you think about that. So they're the ones that hold the majority of the relationships. If we don't keep up with the competition or stay ahead, really, I think I look at adding advisory to everything we do as staying ahead of the competition because the competition is still very compliance based.\r\nIf we don't do that, we're going to lose our leg in the industry and we don't want to do that. So it's very, very important to AICPA and CPA. com that we continue to advocate. For that, um, in, in the industry for adding advisory services to everything we do for compliance so that we maintain the relationships and stay ahead of the competition.\r\n[00:40:36] Meredith Smith: Well, and that's where we even see from, we work with, with sales tax software vendors to help our clients solve a problem that they have, right. They need to collect sales tax. They need to get on an invoice. What's the best way to do that? And so often we partner with various sales tax software platforms to But what we also are finding them doing, it's like, you know, that same kind of vein of, well, we can solve this problem by way of putting tax on an invoice.\r\nOh, but then we can help you register. Oh, and then we can help you research the tax rules. And then we can help you put all of that collected tax on a tax return. So they are. Expanding and kind of, I would say, kind of doing what you're suggesting CPA firms do, but at the same time, you've got to understand, like, really, what's your core competency and what are you really good at?\r\nBecause as a software vendor, you're not good at advisory services when you're also not an advisory firm, but also the advisory firms, it's like. We do, and kind of going back to some of our earlier conversation, we do want to be kind of like all things for our clients, because that is that relationship.\r\nAnd we value that connection and want to assist you with your problems. But at the same time, that's where we look at it. And it's like, well, we've got to also partner with other firms because we can't be all things to all people. So let's get to know really good people that we can refer you to. And us as state and local tax experts, we don't have to also be competent in.\r\nPermanent establishment for some of our non U. S. based businesses, but let's partner with some of those other firms that are really good at that. \r\n[00:42:16] Kim Blascoe: Yeah. And you know, I think we, a lot of times talk, even in our coaching program, we talk about, we work, cause we work a small, medium and large firms, right. When we do coaching and consulting and you know, I always tell everybody, I'm like, okay, think about, think about the difference in the service offerings that you have between small, medium and large firms.\r\nRight. So your large firms, they probably have a huge. Amount of service offerings that they do, including assault practice, including a payroll practice or an HR consulting practice. So they have, they have like, you know, really like honed in on different services that in a generalist practice, they're going to keep it high level.\r\nAnd the large firms have kind of scoped that much in more, much more detail. Then you think about the medium sized firms and they probably have a good number of services, but not as many. So, they have to go to find resources in other places, and they just build those relationships. And then you think of the small firms where they're really focused on maybe a small number of services that they have to offer, and they absolutely have to go out and find other resources to help them. I always said, you know, one of the, you think of one of the beauties of merging in like a smaller firm, merging into a larger firm, it's like heaven on earth. The first year, when it comes to the service offerings you have available to your clients, right?\r\nSo you have like all this growth in the very first year, because you're like, Oh my gosh, we can do cyber. We can do R&D credits, you know, like all these things that before you had to go find resources for, and, and you realize like how many more. Service opportunities your clients have inside of those large firms, but, you know, there's trades to everything you do, you know, you get into a large firm environment and it becomes a little more of like.\r\nI hate to use the word silo, but, you know, like, you've become more practice and industry focused and now that generalist concept is a little bit different and not all clients like that. So some clients like working with small firms because it's a more intimate relationship. But then you have to go and find some of those additional resources. \r\nI don't know if we talked about this, but, you know, this whole India thing, we had a huge facility in Hyderabad at Deloitte. And what I found that was challenging for our team was we had to do things, have them do things 3 times. So even though we got this huge cost differential and the salaries, we have this huge training cost to the people in the US and these 4 people had to work in the middle of the night.\r\nAnd I see this going on this, this dilution across the nation, where using different countries to take advantage of wage disparity. And I wonder how you feel about that, given the CPA community in America, because it's almost like we're lowering the costs by giving other work to other countries, instead of making American business recognize the true cost of doing business in America by paying US wages. And sometimes I don't, I struggle with that, even though there's a need for it. \r\n[00:46:25] Kim Blascoe: Yeah. So, I mean, I guess I have maybe a couple of thoughts on that one. I think the philosophy today is different than when we first started getting into the foreign countries from a workspace. I think now we have, we, we really have a problem filling seats in the accounting space and hiring offshore helps solve some of those problems.\r\nI think initially the, the stars in the eyes were all about, Oh my gosh, we can get these individuals. For a much smaller fee, but I agree with you, it wasn't a dollar for dollar trade. There definitely was a, a learning and education difference between the individuals. in the offshore teams in some of the offshore countries versus, you know, what we saw on the US side.\r\nSo it really did require additional training. The other thing is, is I think when we 1st went into the offshore world and with at least have their offshore world for a really long time. They had it when I came in in 2010, we already had a cast practice, like a bonafide cast practice offshore, which was kind of cool because they were way ahead of their time.\r\nI had nothing to do with it. It already existed. I inherited it, but it already existed. But I think back then, you know, it was like, you know, let's, let's look at the profitability aspect of it. Then we very quickly learned that it is really important. Yeah. To do a very defined job description and what you're looking for skill sets on the offshore piece so that you make sure that everybody's hired for success.\r\nOtherwise, you're going to constantly be disappointed in the quality of the work that that you're getting over on the U. S side. And I think we all learned from that, right? It was very much a struggle and we all learned from it. And I tell my firms that I'm coaching with that are looking at doing an offshore piece because that's the other thing that offshore piece used to be a very big firm.\r\nThing right now, everybody does offshore. \r\n[00:48:17] Judy Vorndran: I get pitched for it every day. Somebody's finding me and say, I have resources in India, Philippines. I'm like, holy moly. I don't even know who you are, but they're pitching me to use them. \r\n[00:48:25] Kim Blascoe: It's all over the place and, you know, and all different service offerings.\r\nIt's just the way people are solving. You know, some of their employment issues nowadays, but, you know, I think the importance of that, you know, goes back to make sure that, you know, what you're hiring, right. And make sure that the skill sets that you're hiring fit the service offerings that you expect them to do.\r\nBecause when I talk to firms that I'm like, what do you want your offshore piece to do? And I've been here, right? Like I have done the offshore piece. I get it. And they're like, I want them to do everything from transactional to controller. Everything that's not automated. And I'm like, okay, but you understand controller type of services is a higher-level service.\r\nThat's a manager level service on the U S side, right? So, think about who you're hiring over on the offshore side, because in order for them to do those services, they have to have the proper training to do them. You can't expect, you can't expect those individuals to be able to do it on their own and their education systems.\r\nAre different than the U. S. education system. So, you might need to send some people over to do some training and, you know, maybe the, I always said the beautiful thing would have been to have had somebody that was willing on the U. S. side, a couple of people that were willing to maybe go spend a year over.\r\nYeah. We did a ton of secondments at the light tons of people spend, we would send a lot of people over there. I went over there many times, you know, so we send a lot of people over there, but nobody was there for the long haul, right. You know, go spend a year, help us train up our people. So, I think that's all really important and something to take into consideration when you're looking at the officer.\r\nSo, I don't think it's necessarily about profitability anymore. I think it's about finding people to do the types of services that we need to do for our individual practices because we just don't have as many bodies on the US side\r\nI think younger generations just wants more time and not as much, you know, hands on and wants to utilize tech.\r\nBut there's, there's a dichotomy going on here where they think tech solves all and there's still talent and operations that need to be done. In fact, Just talking to some other firm leaders recently at this boomer conference, which I assume is kind of similar to the cpa. com is doing, which I didn't realize was doing something similar.\r\nThat's why we're talking to you, but I'm lucky to these other teams. And they're like, well, I did it all the way. Like I know how it needs to be filed. So now I know the automation is right. And there's something to be said about that. You count on automation. We don't, I was taught never to count on automation.\r\nThat was just my training. You can't trust it. But I think we've got a generation that's saying, well, trust it. Yeah. But verify, right? We don't know how to verify it, though. So we've got to kind of figure some of that out nationally, nationally. \r\nMeredith and I years ago, we wrote this article about Sweden because Sweden loves their taxing authority. They love the part of their government that's involved in their life from birth to death.\r\nAnd so there's something about it. They've done really well, maybe because they're a homogenous society. I don't know. But we have this very anti tax. Thanks. Culture in America. And I'm like, but you know, you have roads and schools and fire departments and police and, and, you know, people taking care of science and airports.\r\nI mean, that all took tax dollars. Like you didn't, it didn't get built out. People were going on their wagons and riding horses just a little while ago. So that all paid for people coming together. \r\n[00:53:27] Kim Blascoe: Yeah. You know, an interesting story about that. Back when I was doing tax work, I had a. Client a new client they came into the country.\r\nThey were Canadians. They came into the country And so they were living here full time and so they had to file a tax return So I did their tax return form and I told them and he was he was a contractor So he had to pay social security tax and income tax and they They had not been paying at all. Right.\r\nHe was a 10 99 subcontractor. And so I prepared the tax return for him. I'm like all stressed out because like they owed just a ton of money. Right. In my mind, they owed a ton of money in company. Cause there was no planning. There was no planning on the upfront. It was like, they walked in my office. They said, do this tax return for me.\r\nAnd I'm like, Oh, where are you from? They're like, Oh, we're Canadian. And I'm like, Oh, cool. Okay. So we did the tax return. I handed them the bill and they go, that's all we owe. And it was, it was a husband and wife. They were sitting in front of my desk and I'm like, Oh, Really? I thought that was horrible. And they're like, Oh my gosh, no, in Canada, we give minimum 50 percent of our income back to taxes.\r\nAnd he's like, we think nothing of it. And you all complain about, you know, how much it costs you in income tax. And even if you ask social security and Medicare tax to that, you're not giving 50 percent your state tax. You're not giving 50 percent for most people. Right. So I thought that was a really interesting, like eye opener, like You know, it's a us problem, right?\r\nOur, it's like our, our, um, you know, kind of thought process about our taxing system and how everybody feels like they get taxed all the way around. And in all actuality, most countries are much worse than ours. \r\n[00:54:55] Judy Vorndran: They're much worse. And I feel like I wish people would appreciate that. I always try to get from a perspective of appreciation.\r\nI mean, certainly we advocate on behalf of taxing. Fairs, but we also recognize that got, they haven't complied. So we've gotta rep, you know, rep say with governments like, Hey, you know, give these guys a little grace so that we can get them in compliance. 'cause they do wanna do the right thing they just didn't know.\r\nSo, you know, but you can only plead the fifth so long . \r\n[00:55:19] Kim Blascoe: Right? And you know, the acknowledgement that government is a business, right? So if you're running a business. Which the government should be running a business. You have to be able to make money in order to do things like you said. Nice roads, clean cities, you know, like all those things that take a lot of money, people's time, and infrastructure to do.\r\nSo somebody has to pay for it. Right, but also, you know, I don't want to pay any more than my share. So that's right. My whole deal, but that's the challenge But I feel like everybody needs to actually pony up some money But it does it \r\n[00:55:51] Judy Vorndran: actually I feel it works out from my experience big Porter regional to small.\r\nI'm like the big firms The big companies bear the brunt of the tax obligations and small companies get away with murder, which is why the Wayfair decision did even the playing field. And there's no reason that decision need to go forward. Wayfair could have given a rip about South Dakota. They did it out of the goodness of their hearts because they're very wealthy individuals that started that company and they and Newegg and overstock.\r\ncom all came together, paid the legal fees to hide that fight on behalf of taxpayers. And I think there you have 3. Come some young tech entrepreneurs who are open to this process as they've learned to deal with America. Right. Okay. If I've got to do it because I've made myself a big name, I'm going to sue, get sued, get audited.\r\nI'm going to kind of settle. I'm going to let it go forward. And that's how that decision came forward. Because it was 100 percent a plan thing. It was not, it did not need to go to the Supreme Court. It was, it was a deprived, uh, procedure. And the fastest way the great Supreme Court was to go through South Dakota.\r\nBut it did even the playing field. To some degree from a regulatory things. \r\n[00:56:53] Kim Blascoe: Yep. Yeah. Definitely changed things and I think, you know, to some degree made things a lot more complicated or maybe. Yeah, \r\n[00:57:02] Judy Vorndran: oh, \r\n[00:57:03] Kim Blascoe: way complicated. \r\n[00:57:04] Judy Vorndran: I've never seen states act that quickly in my whole flipping life. I've been doing this almost 30 years.\r\nI've never seen every state get on board within 3 years. Every state has a wayfair law. Now they all are varied, but they all have 1. you just do not see that kind of conformity. Ever, but they're like, there's a huge amount of money not coming to my front door because it's coming to my, I'm getting packages delivered to my front door now.\r\nAnd so I'm going to even it. And you know, the other thing, the cost of doing business is slower now because of tech and people are open for business everywhere, including myself. I don't just have Colorado clients. We have clients all over the world. We can help anybody because we have tech. We can talk to you like we're doing now.\r\nWe're not barrier. We don't have barriers to entry by having someone drive up to our office. So, and even though we have offices, we work remotely because why go in if we don't need to. So it's really changed the dynamic of our ability to help 1 another. And with tech, we can do it. I would, of course, we were pandemic proof because.\r\nYou know, we're we're we're a necessary job. Yeah. \r\n[00:58:03] Kim Blascoe: Yeah. I did say it was 1. I thought that the 1 thing 1 really beneficial thing for cash practices coming out of the pandemic was clients now realized that you didn't have to be sitting in their office to have a conversation with them. Right? Yes. You know, even though a lot of, um, staff on cast practices were already working remotely, they still had a regional draw to them to some degree.\r\nSo like, if they had clients that still wanted them to come and sit in their offices, they did that. Yeah. When the pandemic happened and we spent a year on zoom and then like, I'd have clients and they, I'd be like, do you want me to start coming out again? They're like, no, like we like this. We're used to it.\r\nRight. And it was really the birth of virtual. Um, the virtual conversations and the, and CFO and trusted advisor conversations that individuals were having, having with their businesses and the feeling that sitting next to them wasn't as important anymore. \r\n[01:00:52] Meredith Smith: Well, and as we wrap up, and I can't believe we're kind of coming to the end of Q3, right? Looking into the end of Q4. As 2025 quickly approaches, does cpa.com have a focus that they're looking into that could impact the industry and kind of forward thinking? \r\n[01:01:09] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, so I think 1 of the, you know, I've, I probably mentioned today already, like, one of the big things that we're focused on is the advisory transformation piece.\r\nRight? So we will continue to focus on our audit and cast transformation and offerings that we have. And and we have a lot of firms that haven't even started any of that. You know, I think if you think about the audit transformation, it's a. It's a much slower move than cast transformation has been right, you know, because audit has been the same for many, many years.\r\nSo we now have, um, you know, things being built that change the way audits are done and and that's. Amazing and there's technology being thrown at it. So spreadsheets may be a thing of the past, even in the audit world. Um, so that's really cool. And we continue to work with cast practices on their transformation as well.\r\nBut I think overall, that whole, you know, discussion that we had earlier on the advisory piece of it and what that advisory transformation looks like, um, from an overall firm perspective, and then how do we get things, you know, aligned appropriately, you know, From a service offering perspective, so that we are more client centric and thinking about what that client experience looks like working, you know, with the firms, which is maybe a little bit different approach than we've had in the past.\r\nYou know, we've been very practice or service offering focused, not necessarily thinking about the client experience. So that's a big part of it with what we're doing today. We upscaling piece because we have a long way to go. And there, you know, you had mentioned when we were talking about. Like, you know, things that the younger generation doesn't know how to do a bank reconciliation.\r\nThey don't know how to do bank reconciliations. They grew up on their computers. Everything is on their phones. Everything is in real time. They don't have any of those skills yet. We still do that inside of cast practices, uh, from a business perspective. So, you know, building out even some of those, what we would consider to be entry level skills into a cast practice, because the service offerings in cast.\r\nAre different than what they need from an audit and tax perspective. So we continue to work on our upscaling programs and education that we have. Um, and I think, you know, that is 1 of the areas we know that firms come to us all the time and say, we need this. Right? So we have this thing called cast core at, which is.\r\nUm, an education packaged education platform for, uh, cast. Associates that they can go, they also have something called MBA express, which is really like a leadership soft skills thing, but we don't really have anything on that, that lower end, you know, in our, in our cast leaders are saying to us, you know, could you please build something so that when we have new people coming into our cast practice, we can give them, uh, you know, uh, cast 101 training on what cast is, because this is not something that is being.\r\nUm, trained and educated inside of the university level stuff. So we're working on a lot of that as well. So very much still focused on the education and training piece of it. But transformation is our number 1 focus and continuing to build vendor relationships that help the firms that we work with.\r\nYeah, \r\n[01:04:13] Meredith Smith: that's awesome. And I think we're so kind of grateful and helpful that there are resources out there like cpa. com. Um, especially because I think the industry is changing. We're not just green visors sitting in a desk, you know, not moving anymore, not talking to any people and, you know, it is truly a relationship.\r\nField, and so, Kim, we really, really appreciate your time today and thank you so much for being here and we look forward to continuing the relationship. \r\n[01:04:45] Kim Blascoe: Yeah, so much fun. Thank you for having me. \r\n[01:05:19] Meredith Smith: Well, this has been another episode of SALTovation. \u2018Til next time.\r\n","footnotes":""},"categories":[723,229,226],"tags":[252,167,284,126,265,476,999,30,1007,80,141],"class_list":["post-15028","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcast","category-state-and-local","category-tax-news","tag-accountant","tag-california","tag-cfo","tag-cpa","tag-finance-professional","tag-franchise-tax","tag-public-law-86-272","tag-state-and-local-tax","tag-tax-cases","tag-tax-provider","tag-tax-returns"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/dy2.webp","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15028","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=15028"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15028\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":15102,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15028\/revisions\/15102"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/15032"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=15028"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=15028"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/taxops.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=15028"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}